Property Line Hunters

[MikeD74T]

Land ownership is a funny thing in the US. Regardless of which state you're in only by paying taxes on a frequent & continuous basis does the "landowner' retain any say over how the land will be used and by whom. This privelage may be transferred by the exchange of mutually agreeable considerations but if the taxes don't get paid government will take ownership of the land. Government determines "landowner rights" in all cases.

Mike, you and I are on the same wavelength......I totally agree with your view on some hunters "spot"...Do you have any links/sources on the NH &G laws pertaining to F&G CO's authority to enter posted land....

This subject was discussed on another website regarding "Tracking dogs" and there was discussions about tracking dog handlers and their ability to enter posted land......someone there said it was legal and others said it was not...

Maybe you can help me to understand and verify.....Thanx

The officer didn't offer any specific statutes & I generally take that sort of statement with a grain of salt but he was also plain in his discussion that when this situation arises that you'd better be able to provide a blood trail originating from a legal hunting area onto the posted property. There are statutes clearly allowing officers to enter posted land to investigate crime which could result in determining the original shooter in fact shot onto land which he was not authorized to hunt on. In other words, if you call for their help you'd better be legit.
Dog hunting can get tricky, dogs don't recognize property lines but their owners are obliged to. I know a dog hunter that has had to get F&G involved in retrieving a hound impounded by a landowner. Got the impression it was painful & time consuming for all parties before it was resolved. I have no knowledge of anything that would allow a leashed dog to bring a handler onto posted property for hunting. Something like searching for a missing person would, I suspect, be considered a potential crime investigation & considered a public benefit ( which fits nicely with Missouri's motto - "The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law" - for DwightD123's benefit ).

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage? Is the state paying me for maintaining a suitable habitat for deer, rather than developing the land into town houses or a shopping mall? .....quote]

Actually there are significant tax incentives for allowing hunting & some other forms of recreation, as well as permission to take out of season animals for legitimate crop damage if reasonable effort has been made to prevent that damage. There are also incentives by private groups to purchase anti-developement rights to one's property. A neighboring farm just got over $1 million for an agreement not to develop their property, which is not even especially suitable for development and they couldn't have sold lots for that much. They retain all other rights to continue farming or not, it just can't be sold as housing lots.

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage?QUOTE]

Ha ha ha...well put. I would hate to live in a state that took the view that they could supersede landownders rights to that degree. I mean I know wardens can come on the property but to come in to track a deer even if the landowner says no? That's a whole new level of wrong. Next thing the guy tracking gets hurt and sues you....smells like a turd in turpentine to me. quote]

I don't know anything about MO but NH is quite specific about landowner rights. A public radio show this week told of rain barrels being illegal in CO because rain is public property and must be allowed to run unencumbered wherever it will run to. Now I find that a bit much!! NH has laws to protect landowners from liability unless the landowner profits from the access, i.e. lease hunters & as the F&G officer said, they would work with the landowners within the laws both ways, the intend being to obtain landowner cooperation. MikeD74T

 

[Missouri Pioneer]

Deer Season - This year a guy came in and cut about a acre of softwood regen so he could see into a hemlock swamp.
So for the most part I ignor it or just let them know gently that I am upset by what they did.

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

2x I have come home to find hunters in my place, the first time they had flipped a skiff, walked a couple miles to my place and I came home to 3 naked guys wrapped in blankets huddled around my stove:laughing: They were appologetic and appreciative and near death. They ended up staying a few days til the weather broke and they could fly out. 2 are good friends now. The other time,I came home to a strange boat in the cove and a skiff on the beach and 2 drunks in my cabin drinking my beer! Because of their attitude after I walked in, I put them both back in their skiff minus their boots, coats, an rifles and told them they could come back in the am when they were sober to get their stuff. They sent another who had stayed on the boat back to get their stuff in the am, with their appologies and even sent a jug in with him.

I guess hunters are like everyone else, there are some who will try to take advantage of every situation but most of those will do the right thing if given a chance.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

Maybe I made it sound worse than it was. There was an area of large tress that had been thinned to promote some regen. There was a sparse regen component started of christmas tree size softwood. He cut about an acre of these out. It was a lot of trees but the acre still had the big trees on it.

My understanding is that in VT it would not be considered a criminal act. And VT civil law says if you cut someone elses trees you pay the owner thee times thier value. Being small trees they have very little or no market value. I would go to court and get nothing. Sad but true.

 

[Tollster]

I really rather try to get along with the neighbors, if people ask, I also let them hunt. If I see a stranger, I approach them and ask their names, and where they are from, then suggest stopping by the house when they are done. I then tell them i would perfer if they asked ahead of time. Sometimes deer reduction is the best deterent of all. I do not permit drives on my property either
Anyone who hunts leased areas nearby are not welcome on my property, ask I want to know who is on it, and there are quite a few who really should not own a rifle.
I don't know how long ya been there, but if it hasn't been long, try to work something out with everyone involved.

 

[strum456]

I really rather try to get along with the neighbors, if people ask, I also let them hunt. If I see a stranger, I approach them and ask their names, and where they are from, then suggest stopping by the house when they are done. I then tell them i would perfer if they asked ahead of time. Sometimes deer reduction is the best deterent of all. I do not permit drives on my property either
Anyone who hunts leased areas nearby are not welcome on my property, ask I want to know who is on it, and there are quite a few who really should not own a rifle.
I don't know how long ya been there, but if it hasn't been long, try to work something out with everyone involved.

Right there is the most senseable post on this thread.

 

[GPintheMitten]

If they are on your property, you have a point. If they are on their own property but close to the line, leave them alone. You have no right to a buffer zone around your property, other than a safety zone around your residence and out bldgs. In Michigan, its 450' from the bldg, not property lines.

 

[Western]

Been there, thought about it.
But when I pass on I don't want to spend eternity with the devil or any of his associates. :laughing:
Boone

Boone, you got that right, we don't want to be part of a family reunion in ****, that's for sure, no cold drinks would suck:laughing:

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

You got that right!

I came home to 3 naked guys wrapped in blankets huddled around my stove:laughing:

Yes sir, I would have a problem finding naked guy's on/in my place:laughing: I guess under the circumstances maybe a bit more acceptable in that situation, maybe.

 

[EHR]

Land ownership is a funny thing in the US. Regardless of which state you're in only by paying taxes on a frequent & continuous basis does the "landowner' retain any say over how the land will be used and by whom. This privelage may be transferred by the exchange of mutually agreeable considerations but if the taxes don't get paid government will take ownership of the land. Government determines "landowner rights" in all cases.



The officer didn't offer any specific statutes & I generally take that sort of statement with a grain of salt but he was also plain in his discussion that when this situation arises that you'd better be able to provide a blood trail originating from a legal hunting area onto the posted property. There are statutes clearly allowing officers to enter posted land to investigate crime which could result in determining the original shooter in fact shot onto land which he was not authorized to hunt on. In other words, if you call for their help you'd better be legit.
Dog hunting can get tricky, dogs don't recognize property lines but their owners are obliged to. I know a dog hunter that has had to get F&G involved in retrieving a hound impounded by a landowner. Got the impression it was painful & time consuming for all parties before it was resolved. I have no knowledge of anything that would allow a leashed dog to bring a handler onto posted property for hunting. Something like searching for a missing person would, I suspect, be considered a potential crime investigation & considered a public benefit ( which fits nicely with Missouri's motto - "The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law" - for DwightD123's benefit ).

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage? Is the state paying me for maintaining a suitable habitat for deer, rather than developing the land into town houses or a shopping mall? .....quote]

Actually there are significant tax incentives for allowing hunting & some other forms of recreation, as well as permission to take out of season animals for legitimate crop damage if reasonable effort has been made to prevent that damage. There are also incentives by private groups to purchase anti-developement rights to one's property. A neighboring farm just got over $1 million for an agreement not to develop their property, which is not even especially suitable for development and they couldn't have sold lots for that much. They retain all other rights to continue farming or not, it just can't be sold as housing lots.

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage?QUOTE]

Ha ha ha...well put. I would hate to live in a state that took the view that they could supersede landownders rights to that degree. I mean I know wardens can come on the property but to come in to track a deer even if the landowner says no? That's a whole new level of wrong. Next thing the guy tracking gets hurt and sues you....smells like a turd in turpentine to me. quote]

I don't know anything about MO but NH is quite specific about landowner rights. A public radio show this week told of rain barrels being illegal in CO because rain is public property and must be allowed to run unencumbered wherever it will run to. Now I find that a bit much!! NH has laws to protect landowners from liability unless the landowner profits from the access, i.e. lease hunters & as the F&G officer said, they would work with the landowners within the laws both ways, the intend being to obtain landowner cooperation. MikeD74T

The tax levels are minor in NH. Both fall under current use. On a hundred acres it amounts to about 50 bucks to go to the higher level in which it is not considered recreation land that is open to the public. I have mine in that, it somewhat isolate me incase someone hurts themselves while trsspassing themselves on it. It is like snowmobiling in NH. The law states that you need the landowners written permission to snowmobile on it.

I wish it didn't come to this but having hunters walk within 30 feet of my house when I am in the yard and is stupid. The stupid ones ruin it for the majority who appreciate the access. Maybe hunters and others should police themselves as a group better and then more of the remaining land would be available.

 

[DwightD123]

If they are on your property, you have a point. If they are on their own property but close to the line, leave them alone. You have no right to a buffer zone around your property, other than a safety zone around your residence and out bldgs. In Michigan, its 450' from the bldg, not property lines.

I know I don't have a right to a buffer zone just like I don't have a right to not get stung by a wasp on my bright white ***, but I do want to avoid it if there is a decent way of doing so. If I can ease the other hunters back my Dad will be safer and the hunt will be less likely to be interrupted by them wanting to track a deer or driving their 4 wheeler down the property line. I am a pretty easy going guy and will do everything I can to handle it in a way that would not be rude or ignorant. I will keep in perspective it is not my right to have them move back just try and see if I can get them to understand.