New member looking for advice

[kgcm]

Note: I posted this in the new member forum, but figured I'd get a better response on this forum.

Howdy, my name is Eric. I manage the Airport in Claremore, OK with a 5200 ft runway, parallel taxiway, 400k sq/ft apron sitting on about 520 ac. We have a grasshopper 428D, Kubota B7610, and a Ford 3600 w 5ft cutter(going to sale in order to get more implements). In the past we have mowed around the buildings, ditches, and rwy/twy edges with our current equipment and contracted out the large areas to a local farmer. We have also relied on the City for snow removal which we were very low on the priority list. The industrial authority that oversees the airport also runs an industrial park w 125 ac which I will take over mowing next season.

I recently got approval to purchase a tractor package including 4x4 cab tractor w bucket, 12ft cutter, and hyd adjust snow blade up to 50k. With that said, I have talked to many local dealers including NH, Mahindra, Kioti, Massy, and Kubota (which I am not happy with the service at the local dealer already). I am waiting to receive bids trough state purchasing contracts. The 1st one I've received is for a NH T4.75 cab w loader, power shuttle 38,184, Rhino TS12 Brush cutter 8,450, and workmaster 9ft hyd blade 4,250 for a total of 50,884. So far, from talking with a couple other sales reps they are not going to be able to match the 75Hp of the NH bid and are going to drop it down to 55 - 65 hp but in some cases getting more weight. My preference is to go with the more hp, but in moving snow the heaver tractor might perform better. Any thoughts or directions on the situation would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Eric

 

[deereman75]

Note: I posted this in the new member forum, but figured I'd get a better response on this forum.

Howdy, my name is Eric. I manage the Airport in Claremore, OK with a 5200 ft runway, parallel taxiway, 400k sq/ft apron sitting on about 520 ac. We have a grasshopper 428D, Kubota B7610, and a Ford 3600 w 5ft cutter(going to sale in order to get more implements). In the past we have mowed around the buildings, ditches, and rwy/twy edges with our current equipment and contracted out the large areas to a local farmer. We have also relied on the City for snow removal which we were very low on the priority list. The industrial authority that oversees the airport also runs an industrial park w 125 ac which I will take over mowing next season.

I recently got approval to purchase a tractor package including 4x4 cab tractor w bucket, 12ft cutter, and hyd adjust snow blade up to 50k. With that said, I have talked to many local dealers including NH, Mahindra, Kioti, Massy, and Kubota (which I am not happy with the service at the local dealer already). I am waiting to receive bids trough state purchasing contracts. The 1st one I've received is for a NH T4.75 cab w loader, power shuttle 38,184, Rhino TS12 Brush cutter 8,450, and workmaster 9ft hyd blade 4,250 for a total of 50,884. So far, from talking with a couple other sales reps they are not going to be able to match the 75Hp of the NH bid and are going to drop it down to 55 - 65 hp but in some cases getting more weight. My preference is to go with the more hp, but in moving snow the heaver tractor might perform better. Any thoughts or directions on the situation would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Eric

What about getting a low hour used deere?

 

[dmay]

The only PTO powered attachment you mentioned is your brush cutter. It requires a min 35 PTO HP. The NH T4.75 has 75/63 PTO HP. A tractor in 55-65 HP range would also have enough PTO power.

Is the workmaster 9ft hyd blade a front or rear blade? A snowplow or snowblower on the front might be better for snow removal.

 

[kgcm]

What about getting a low hour used deere?

On my initial search, the local deere dealer seemed too pricey and I haven't looked into any used. The state purchasing contracts are for new equipment.

The only PTO powered attachment you mentioned is your brush cutter. It requires a min 35 PTO HP. The NH T4.75 has 75/63 PTO HP. A tractor in 55-65 HP range would also have enough PTO power.

Is the workmaster 9ft hyd blade a front or rear blade? A snowplow or snowblower on the front might be better for snow removal.

The snow plow is a front mount. I haven't done much research on snowblowers. The runway is 75ft wide and the apron is 200ft wide, so I didn't think that the blower would be my best option. If your experience says different please enlighten me. On the higher hp, I would rather be at the top side on the recommended for the cutter rater than the minimum and wouldn't more hp be better for pushing snow with the plow? Just using logic rather than experience, that's why I am looking for input.

 

[leonz]

Note: I posted this in the new member forum, but figured I'd get a better response on this forum.

Howdy, my name is Eric. I manage the Airport in Claremore, OK with a 5200 ft runway, parallel taxiway, 400k sq/ft apron sitting on about 520 ac. We have a grasshopper 428D, Kubota B7610, and a Ford 3600 w 5ft cutter(going to sale in order to get more implements). In the past we have mowed around the buildings, ditches, and rwy/twy edges with our current equipment and contracted out the large areas to a local farmer. We have also relied on the City for snow removal which we were very low on the priority list. The industrial authority that oversees the airport also runs an industrial park w 125 ac which I will take over mowing next season.

I recently got approval to purchase a tractor package including 4x4 cab tractor w bucket, 12ft cutter, and hyd adjust snow blade up to 50k. With that said, I have talked to many local dealers including NH, Mahindra, Kioti, Massy, and Kubota (which I am not happy with the service at the local dealer already). I am waiting to receive bids trough state purchasing contracts. The 1st one I've received is for a NH T4.75 cab w loader, power shuttle 38,184, Rhino TS12 Brush cutter 8,450, and workmaster 9ft hyd blade 4,250 for a total of 50,884. So far, from talking with a couple other sales reps they are not going to be able to match the 75Hp of the NH bid and are going to drop it down to 55 - 65 hp but in some cases getting more weight. My preference is to go with the more hp, but in moving snow the heaver tractor might perform better. Any thoughts or directions on the situation would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Eric

Hello Eric,

A snow caster will leave NO snow banks to freeze up and deal with snow accumulating over the bank edges.


Your going to want an 8+ foot flail mower for all you plan on cutting as that will reduce your liability from thrown objects to nearly zero percent, all it takes is one rock hitting a car windshield, turbo prop or Lear to have bad day.

A 55-65 horse prime mover will be plenty of power for an 8 foot flail mower from John Deere, Vrismo, or Ferrie.

If you have the tires loaded with windshield washer fluid you will have plenty of traction for snow removal.

The big decision is tire selection where an ag tire R1 will provide more traction without chains

 

[kgcm]

Update on a new bid for a Mahindra 8560 4wd Cab, 15ft cutter, and 8ft front mount hyd snow plow $52,350 and they might take it down to 50k with my trade in of the Ford 3600 and 5ft cutter. Thoughts?

 

[dmay]

The snow plow is a front mount. I haven't done much research on snowblowers. The runway is 75ft wide and the apron is 200ft wide, so I didn't think that the blower would be my best option. If your experience says different please enlighten me. On the higher hp, I would rather be at the top side on the recommended for the cutter rater than the minimum and wouldn't more hp be better for pushing snow with the plow? Just using logic rather than experience, that's why I am looking for input.

Well you first stated you had a blade. Now you state it is a front mount snowplow. These are not the same so make sure you dont confuse the two. Is it truly a snowplow or just a blade? Snowplows will have a bottom cutting edge, multiple trip springs, skid shoes, maybe a top roll side chute addition. A blade is just a blade. More suited for dirt/gravel work.

A snowplow pushes snow. In the end you have piles of snow you have to deal with? A snowblower blows the snow away. No piles of snow to deal with. Personally I think an airport needs both. So if you have a snowplow on the front add a snowblower on the rear.

To push snow you need weight, moving mass and low end torque. Not HP.

 

[kgcm]

Well you first stated you had a blade. Now you state it is a front mount snowplow. These are not the same so make sure you dont confuse the two. Is it truly a snowplow or just a blade? Snowplows will have a bottom cutting edge, multiple trip springs, skid shoes, maybe a top roll side chute addition. A blade is just a blade. More suited for dirt/gravel work.

A snowplow pushes snow. In the end you have piles of snow you have to deal with? A snowblower blows the snow away. No piles of snow to deal with. Personally I think an airport needs both. So if you have a snowplow on the front add a snowblower on the rear.

To push snow you need weight, moving mass and low end torque. Not HP.

That was my fault on the terminology. I am sure about it being a snowplow w springs and shoes. I have a small rear mount angle blade that I use on the Kubota which is pretty useless for moving snow. I will look into pricing on a lesser hp tractor w plow and a blower attachment. I really appreciate your input I would rather sound like a moron on here than in person at a dealer.

Last winter the runway was closed 18 days due to 20+ inches of snow back to back and lack of clearing equipment. Now that I am able to purchase something I want to make sure I do it right so we can handle efficiently it for years to come.

 

[Grandad4]

Suggest you reconsider the snowblower. Nothing gets snow out of the way better. One that would fit tractors like this is in a whole different league from the little walk-behind models... check out the video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZLVcIm_Mc&feature=related]pronovost snowblower - YouTube[/ame]

Much more costly than a blade, particularly when front mounted, but it would virtually eliminate having 4-6 ft. snowbanks piling up at the edge of your runway after a major storm (wouldn't that be a safety concern?). With the blade, you'll end up pushing the snow out into the grass to avoid the snowbanks, vastly increasing the area that must be cleared, and eventually making ruts and a mess out there.

 

[kgcm]

Grandad4 that is an amazing piece of equipment. Thanks for the video. From everyone's input, it looks like I could probably get the lesser hp tractor such as 38pto hp(mahindra 5010) with a 12 ft brush cutter, 8ft snow plow, and a snow blower all within budget. I will check with my dealers and see what they can come up with.

 

[MHarryE]

In Claremore do you really get the kind of snow that warrants a snow blower? At most of the airports I fly into, admittedly most larger than your strip, the prime snow removal seems to be medium wheel loaders with very large plows. Isn't your job to keep the runway clear during the snow so you have to be working at it continuously for while rather than waiting until the snow is over and then clear it off? Has the tractor you will be trading done a good job for you? My sister has a NH like the one you have been quoted on her farm and her husband and son can't keep her away from it. I think it would be a real good tractor for the job but I don't have any experience with the others. I have a Kubota but dealer service is not a problem - it's the same dealer that sold my sister the NH.

Also remembered another thing - you get ice storms now and then don't you? (I lived in KC for 22 years and have a general idea of your weather). I remeber windrows of ice along the runway at MCI - not very good if you only have a snow blower.

 

[rsewill]

Suggest you reconsider the snowblower. Nothing gets snow out of the way better. One that would fit tractors like this is in a whole different league from the little walk-behind models... check out the video:

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZLVcIm_Mc&feature=related

Much more costly than a blade, particularly when front mounted, but it would virtually eliminate having 4-6 ft. snowbanks piling up at the edge of your runway after a major storm (wouldn't that be a safety concern?). With the blade, you'll end up pushing the snow out into the grass to avoid the snowbanks, vastly increasing the area that must be cleared, and eventually making ruts and a mess out there.

Looks like that blower is throwing a fair amount of driveway gravel. But hard to tell because I've never seen a blower bypassing the chute like that one is.

I'm on the side of getting a blower just for the ease of not having to clear lighting and signage. And a blower can move right along if one of its purposes is to keep the runway clear throughout a snow event. A good size blower/tractor doesn't have to crawl along on a well defined surface like a runway.

A FEL and a front mount blower would be nice but 3PH mount is likely the best way to go; just makes my neck sore watching someone use one.

 

[Grandad4]

Me too! If you're young and skinny, looking in back of you isn't much of a feat. For the rest of us, well...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The 8560 is an 8000lb+ machine. Lots of power and 17GPM implement pump. Get a snow blower that is hydraulic driven and mounts on the loader arms. It will pull a 15' mower without problem. These are VERY nice machines.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Grandad4 that is an amazing piece of equipment. Thanks for the video. From everyone's input, it looks like I could probably get the lesser hp tractor such as 38pto hp(mahindra 5010) with a 12 ft brush cutter, 8ft snow plow, and a snow blower all within budget. I will check with my dealers and see what they can come up with.

38 PTO HP isn't enough to pull a 12' bush hog, no matter what the ads say. In some cases it is barely enough to pull a 6 footer.

With that said, I think you need to shop around at some different Kubota dealers. You could get a M7040 4x4 cab tractor, with loader and 84" Kubota snow blower for about $43K, if you shop around. That leaves about $7K for a mower, which I think would be doable. The M7040 would have plenty of power to handle a 12' bush hog.

 

[dmrp6510]

I would take some other things into consideration than price and brand like parts supply since this is an airport you need to look a down time major brands Kubota John Deere new holland and some others are going to have better parts supply than lesser brands for instance we have a Jd 6000 series and fuel pump went bad under warranty but was backordered so they went out on the dealers network and found one in Texas cost me 50 for shipping but we were fixed and farming again in 2 days

 

[jonny2]

Thanks for the advice i'll keep in touch with this post and will ask for help of any thing if I need.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

For airport snow removal you do NOT want chains on your tractor.
Foreign Object Damage is the ban of all aircraft, and chains have a habit of breaking off pieces which can be bounced and sucked into the worst places at the worst time.

 

[jonyyuma]

Be sure to buy at least a 6 ft wide magnet to pull along and pick-up FOD.

 

[kgcm]

In Claremore do you really get the kind of snow that warrants a snow blower? At most of the airports I fly into, admittedly most larger than your strip, the prime snow removal seems to be medium wheel loaders with very large plows. Isn't your job to keep the runway clear during the snow so you have to be working at it continuously for while rather than waiting until the snow is over and then clear it off? Has the tractor you will be trading done a good job for you? My sister has a NH like the one you have been quoted on her farm and her husband and son can't keep her away from it. I think it would be a real good tractor for the job but I don't have any experience with the others. I have a Kubota but dealer service is not a problem - it's the same dealer that sold my sister the NH.

Also remembered another thing - you get ice storms now and then don't you? (I lived in KC for 22 years and have a general idea of your weather). I remeber windrows of ice along the runway at MCI - not very good if you only have a snow blower.

Claremore is hit or miss on how bad the winters get, and last year was one that we needed a blower. In the past we have just waited for it to melt or the City bring out equipment to clear the runway, so the ability to be more self sustained and work continuously on clearing is the priority. The ford tractor has not done any snow removal, it was just for mowing.

The 8560 is an 8000lb+ machine. Lots of power and 17GPM implement pump. Get a snow blower that is hydraulic driven and mounts on the loader arms. It will pull a 15' mower without problem. These are VERY nice machines.

I am most likely going to go with the 8560 because of the weight, additional hp, and warranty. The ability to run the larger mower is a plus, and with the addition of a plow we should be able to take care of business a lot more efficiently. My goal is to get the best tractor with the money allotted and implements such as a blower can be purchased later on.

For airport snow removal you do NOT want chains on your tractor.
Foreign Object Damage is the ban of all aircraft, and chains have a habit of breaking off pieces which can be bounced and sucked into the worst places at the worst time.

Not sure where you got chains from, but I will not be using them. I intend to get at least the rear tires filled w/ fluid.