Magnetic Engine Block Heater

[oldballs]

3045 Century Trator
Yanmar engine - Diesel
Storage is outside
Power is readily available

Hey, JayHawk. If your tractor battery is fairly new and the temps around here don't get that low for extended time, I'd settle for a couple of the magnetic heaters. You probably won't even need them around here. my .02 cents. As for plug in appliances, they all can end up in the snow if you don't disconnect them. :laughing: Mike

 

[brokenot]

Pad-style heaters like the Wolverine are okay, but they will NOT out-perform a traditional block heater, unless the only performance comparison they're doing is which style of heater warms up the crankcase better. I've got nothing against warming the oil, but diesels are compression-ignition. That means that as the piston comes up on the compression stroke, the air in the cylinder is compressed causing a rise in temperature. The temp rise needs to be adequate enough for ignition of the sprayed-in fuel to occur.

With a block heater, you're warming up the coolant jacket that surrounds the cylinders. Any warming that occurs there, (and/or in the cylinder head), is naturally going to assist in starting, because the heat transferred is going to allow for a greater temp rise to occur as the piston is coming up on the compression stroke. Warming the oil pan will allow for quicker oil flow, but it won't do much at all for warming of the cylinders, head, or intake manifold....and those three things are what counts most for cold weather diesel starting.

I live in the #2 spot on this list, and I've seen/used just about every type of available heater there is...on engines from several manufacturers:

America's 25 Coldest Cities - The Daily Beast

Once again, not against pad-style oil pan heaters, but what do equipment and engine manufacturers install and/or recommend most often themselves?

 

[grsthegreat]

Pad-style heaters like the Wolverine are okay, but they will NOT out-perform a traditional block heater, unless the only performance comparison they're doing is which style of heater warms up the crankcase better. I've got nothing against warming the oil, but diesels are compression-ignition. That means that as the piston comes up on the compression stroke, the air in the cylinder is compressed causing a rise in temperature. The temp rise needs to be adequate enough for ignition of the sprayed-in fuel to occur.

With a block heater, you're warming up the coolant jacket that surrounds the cylinders. Any warming that occurs there, (and/or in the cylinder head), is naturally going to assist in starting, because the heat transferred is going to allow for a greater temp rise to occur as the piston is coming up on the compression stroke. Warming the oil pan will allow for quicker oil flow, but it won't do much at all for warming of the cylinders, head, or intake manifold....and those three things are what counts most for cold weather diesel starting.

I live in the #2 spot on this list, and I've seen/used just about every type of available heater there is...on engines from several manufacturers:

America's 25 Coldest Cities - The Daily Beast

Once again, not against pad-style oil pan heaters, but what do equipment and engine manufacturers install and/or recommend most often themselves?

Well you may be right about this...but i dont realy know. All i do know for sure is my Kioti warranty has a statement which says ...

​

C. The General and Extended Warranties do not cover the following:
1. Physical abuse or misuse of the product or operation of the product in a manner contrary to the provisions of its owner痴 manual.
2. A repair made or parts replaced or modified by anyone other than an authorized KIOTI dealer


#2 being the most obvious.

Its a 90 mile round trip to my dealer, and i wasnt about to pop out a freeze plug myself and possibly void my warranty by doing so.

Im not sure if this clause would hold up in court or not, but i dont intend to pay to find out. Gluing a heater to the engine does not structurally change anything..... poping a part off the block does.


I went round and round with Ford over a warranty issue on a 89 Bronco years ago and i NEVER want to have to do this again. So im playing it safe.

 

[twinjayhawks]

Hey, JayHawk. If your tractor battery is fairly new and the temps around here don't get that low for extended time, I'd settle for a couple of the magnetic heaters.

You are right, most of the time it does not get that cold but when it does... I usually need to use the tractor for snow removal. The last snow (24") it was below zero and I just about did not get the thing started.

 

[Diamondpilot]

My block heaters on my tractor and truck both warm the engine to well over 100 deg in a few hours. I can plug in my PowerStroke Ford and a few hours later just go out and turn the key on not starting the truck and have heat in the cab. No glue on or magnetic oil pan heater will ever give you that performance.

As for turning on and off the heater I picked up a Remote Control outlet. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001Q9EFUK...e=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001Q9EFUK
Its got a key fob like you use to enter your car. I plug my tractor in and a small light in it also. I can then press the button from my kitchen and observe the light come on telling me the block heater on my tractor is also on in my barn. 1 hours later I am read to go out and get to plowing.

Chris

 

[Don87]

Well you may be right about this...but i dont realy know. All i do know for sure is my Kioti warranty has a statement which says ...

​

C. The General and Extended Warranties do not cover the following:
1. Physical abuse or misuse of the product or operation of the product in a manner contrary to the provisions of its ownerç—´ manual.
2. A repair made or parts replaced or modified by anyone other than an authorized KIOTI dealer


#2 being the most obvious.
Its a 90 mile round trip to my dealer, and i wasnt about to pop out a freeze plug myself and possibly void my warranty by doing so.

Im not sure if this clause would hold up in court or not, but i dont intend to pay to find out. Gluing a heater to the engine does not structurally change anything..... poping a part off the block does.


I went round and round with Ford over a warranty issue on a 89 Bronco years ago and i NEVER want to have to do this again. So im playing it safe.

I understand your concern(in part), but I can not see any dealer, not honoring a warranty claim, due to the installation of a block heater.(unless you didn't put all the antifreeze back in and cooked the engine)(or the heater sprung a leak and you didn't notice it). Check the block heater as often as the oil!

The only thing a block heater does is heat the water in the engine........which is by far the best way to preheat any engine in cold weather.........and most, if not all manufacturers recommend this procedure for extreme cold starting(it's in your manual).

But..........as always.........when dealing with the cooling system.............be sure you know what you are doing. All antifreeze drained, must go back in!!!!!

Any company(Wolverine included), can make any claim they want.....but ya ain't gonna get any better heating on an engine than a block heater installed in the freeze plug in the water jacket.

As was stated earlier, with a block heater, installed in place of a freeze plug, you are heating the block, cylinders, head............everything at one time. By far the best way to go.

 

[grsthegreat]

I understand your concern(in part), but I can not see any dealer, not honoring a warranty claim, due to the installation of a block heater.(unless you didn't put all the antifreeze back in and cooked the engine)(or the heater sprung a leak and you didn't notice it). Check the block heater as often as the oil!

The only thing a block heater does is heat the water in the engine........which is by far the best way to preheat any engine in cold weather.........and most, if not all manufacturers recommend this procedure for extreme cold starting(it's in your manual).

But..........as always.........when dealing with the cooling system.............be sure you know what you are doing. All antifreeze drained, must go back in!!!!!

Any company(Wolverine included), can make any claim they want.....but ya ain't gonna get any better heating on an engine than a block heater installed in the freeze plug in the water jacket.

As was stated earlier, with a block heater, installed in place of a freeze plug, you are heating the block, cylinders, head............everything at one time. By far the best way to go.

i can agree 100% with what you said. Im just gun shy about warranty issues due to the legal hassles i had to go thru in the past. Its amazing how many things a manufacturer can try to pull not to pay off. Dont even start me on insurance companies...

 

[whitetiger]

The heater you pictured and the parts picture both show the heater to be a threaded screw in heater element. Just drain your coolant, unscrew the plug in your block, put some pipe dope on the heater and screw it into place. Refill your cooling system, run tractor for a few minutes, recheck coolant level, plug in heater.
Anything that is worth doing should be done right or not at all. Forget about the cheezy little stick on or glue on warmers, they will just cause you headaches and waste your money.

 

[grsthegreat]

. Forget about the cheezy little stick on or glue on warmers, they will just cause you headaches and waste your money.

and you know this how??? lets hear the facts.

Ive had a glue on heater on my satellite dish for over 6 years. Works flawlessly.

 

[PILOON]

My block heaters on my tractor and truck both warm the engine to well over 100 deg in a few hours. I can plug in my PowerStroke Ford and a few hours later just go out and turn the key on not starting the truck and have heat in the cab. No glue on or magnetic oil pan heater will ever give you that performance.

As for turning on and off the heater I picked up a Remote Control outlet. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001Q9EFUK...e=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001Q9EFUK
Its got a key fob like you use to enter your car. I plug my tractor in and a small light in it also. I can then press the button from my kitchen and observe the light come on telling me the block heater on my tractor is also on in my barn. 1 hours later I am read to go out and get to plowing.

Chris

I also use a similar unit.
Excellent system.
On mine I added a splitter to activate a witness light as a couple of times the cord was unplugged and I had to delay my usage 'til the engine heated up.
I used a small 15 watt red bulb.

 

[whitetiger]

and you know this how??? lets hear the facts.

Ive had a glue on heater on my satellite dish for over 6 years. Works flawlessly.

I think this thread was about heating an engine block in cold weather, not a satellite dish.
Glueing a heater on an engine block is not a long term solution. The block expands and contracts dislodging the bond which allows rust, mosture and dirt to get between the element and block. End result is very poor heat transfer and heater element finally falling off.

 

[grsthegreat]

I think this thread was about heating an engine block in cold weather, not a satellite dish.
Glueing a heater on an engine block is not a long term solution. The block expands and contracts dislodging the bond which allows rust, mosture and dirt to get between the element and block. End result is very poor heat transfer and heater element finally falling off.

well, well see if this happens. its siliconed on the edges and very strong adhesive. Ill let you all know if it lasts or not....ill get back to you in 10 years or so :laughing:

the sat dish sits on the roof and roasts in the sun and freezes in the winter..it hasn moved one iota in 6 years.

 

[sailfast]

and you know this how??? lets hear the facts.

Ive had a glue on heater on my satellite dish for over 6 years. Works flawlessly.

The fact is that for a diesel engine one needs to heat the coolant in the block, not the oil in the pan.

And heating my sat dish has Never helped Any of my vehicles to start.

 

[sailfast]

well, well see if this happens. its siliconed on the edges and very strong adhesive. Ill let you all know if it lasts or not....ill get back to you in 10 years or so :laughing:

the sat dish sits on the roof and roasts in the sun and freezes in the winter..it hasn moved one iota in 6 years.

The temperature ranges are much greater on an engine. And I am sure that you sat dish gets lots of vibration parked up there on your roof.

When was the last time you started your sat dish on a -10 day and drove it for a couple of hours?

 

[grsthegreat]

The fact is that for a diesel engine one needs to heat the coolant in the block, not the oil in the pan.

And heating my sat dish has Never helped Any of my vehicles to start.

the sat dish was just a reference to its adherence principals. Now for the next point.

Why do you need to heat the water and not the oil??

The water is protected from freezing to about -40F with antifreeze. The oil gets thicker with cold. I would assume that heating the oil would help with viscosity and thus help with engine life.

When i start my engine in 17F without plugging in the heaters i have installed the engine really groans. If i start it after a few hours of plugging it in it purrs. so you tell me whats not working.

 

[mlauk]

Heating the coolant warms up the block which helps a diesel start better, while heating the oil helps the viscocity of oil, but most of the oil is just sitting in the oil pan. The block heaters are a higher wattage also, usually 1000-1500 watts. The radiator hose heaters are usually 600 watts.

 

[whitetiger]

the sat dish was just a reference to its adherence principals. Now for the next point.

Why do you need to heat the water and not the oil??

The water is protected from freezing to about -40F with antifreeze. The oil gets thicker with cold. I would assume that heating the oil would help with viscosity and thus help with engine life.

When i start my engine in 17F without plugging in the heaters i have installed the engine really groans. If i start it after a few hours of plugging it in it purrs. so you tell me whats not working.

Warm cyclinders will start an engine in cold weather much better than warm oil will. Heating the oil just lets the engine crank a little better which may make the difference of it starting or not, but does not radiate heat to warm the fuel. A block heater will warm the cyclinders, warm the oil, warm the fuel all in one. If sticking a heating pad worked as well or better it would be offered by the manufactures.
A heating pad works great for critters water bowls also, but that is not what this thread is about.

 

[grsthegreat]

Warm cylinders will start an engine in cold weather much better than warm oil will. Heating the oil just lets the engine crank a little better which may make the difference of it starting or not, but does not radiate heat to warm the fuel. A block heater will warm the cyclinders, warm the oil, warm the fuel all in one. If sticking a heating pad worked as well or better it would be offered by the manufactures.
A heating pad works great for critters water bowls also, but that is not what this thread is about.

errrrr.. the post was about a magnetic stick on heater. not a block heater. My post is alot closer to the OP question than your is.

Also, i still happen to disagree with your idea of what an engine needs to start up. the glow plugs can actually start my tractor just fine without any heat. all i wanted to do was give it some added help.

Oil or lack of oil will destroy a cylinder wall faster than anything . Heating the oil to assist flow is all that i want to do, and is all that needs to be done.

So you keep spouting your ideas and ill keep spouting mine. But don't you dare say that my ideas have no place on this forum.

thats just plain rude and condescending

now, back to the OP's question, a magnetic heater sucks.

 

[sailfast]

errrrr.. the post was about a magnetic stick on heater. not a block heater. My post is alot closer to the OP question than your is.

Also, i still happen to disagree with your idea of what an engine needs to start up. the glow plugs can actually start my tractor just fine without any heat. all i wanted to do was give it some added help.

Oil or lack of oil will destroy a cylinder wall faster than anything . Heating the oil to assist flow is all that i want to do, and is all that needs to be done.

So you keep spouting your ideas and ill keep spouting mine. But don't you dare say that my ideas have no place on this forum.

thats just plain rude and condescending

now, back to the OP's question, a magnetic heater sucks.

I an sure that is why every diesel truck that I have drivin has come with the factory option block heater.

use the right oil and starting should not be a problem.

Only when your ideas are encouraging people to do things to damage their equipment.

 

[whitetiger]

Originally Posted by grsthegreat

errrrr.. the post was about a magnetic stick on heater. not a block heater. My post is alot closer to the OP question than your is.

Also, i still happen to disagree with your idea of what an engine needs to start up. the glow plugs can actually start my tractor just fine without any heat. all i wanted to do was give it some added help.

Oil or lack of oil will destroy a cylinder wall faster than anything . Heating the oil to assist flow is all that i want to do, and is all that needs to be done.

So you keep spouting your ideas and ill keep spouting mine. But don't you dare say that my ideas have no place on this forum.

thats just plain rude and condescending

now, back to the OP's question, a magnetic heater sucks.




Go back and read the mans question!!!!!!!