Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck?

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   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #251  
You bash GM for taking a bailout but since you mentioned your mortage have you ever thought about the effect that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have one the average joe being able to even get a mortgage?
This is a complex issue. Imagine if the house prices had not been run up for 15 years by speculation, irresponsible people being able to get loans, people getting a HELOC and decking out their house with stainless steel appliances and granite countertops and swimming pools, etc.

Well, houses would be cheaper. Just like they are now. The mood of the market seems to be that they will keep getting cheaper. In a lot of areas, if you were given land for free, you couldn't build a house on it cheaper than you could buy an already built, vacant one on the same block. This may be true for a long time because there are so many foreclosed homes that the banks are not even trying to unload right now, and probably still a lot of future foreclosures to happen.

The simple fact is every American is not responsible enough to be a homeowner. Hopefully a lot of people learn a hard lesson about debt and change their ways.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #252  
Getting this back on track, yes, I really look forward to them. The Direct injection, the smaller DI TT V6, the 8 Speed auto, the possible 4.5L Dmax.

I usually do not buy new, get 3 year old off lease from the dealer.

So, eventually, I will have one.

Next truck will either be a 1500CC 6.2L Max trailer, or more than likely a 2500HD CC Shortbox Gasser. I want a longer box, a little more capacity, and no crappy electric fans, so an HD will fit the bill nicely.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #253  
This is a complex issue. Imagine if the house prices had not been run up for 15 years by speculation, irresponsible people being able to get loans, people getting a HELOC and decking out their house with stainless steel appliances and granite countertops and swimming pools, etc.

Well, houses would be cheaper. Just like they are now. The mood of the market seems to be that they will keep getting cheaper. In a lot of areas, if you were given land for free, you couldn't build a house on it cheaper than you could buy an already built, vacant one on the same block. This may be true for a long time because there are so many foreclosed homes that the banks are not even trying to unload right now, and probably still a lot of future foreclosures to happen.

The simple fact is every American is not responsible enough to be a homeowner. Hopefully a lot of people learn a hard lesson about debt and change their ways.


Lets not forget the people who in good faith bought a home during the bubble and now are underwater. Estimates are as many as 25% of all people with a mortgage are underwater. Granted this is people who used their home for everything from vacations to cars, but some bought and now are stuck.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #254  
Trust me, I will. My fear is though he will get re-elected. Look at the bunch that are running against him. The only hope, as much as I hate to say it, to get this country back in line is to get Trump or a guy just like him in office. He is a arrogant SOB but he has been down and always picks himself up. He knows how to run a business and make money. That all the government is, a company.

Read over the list I posted. It will make you sick just like the Fannie Mae stats posted above.

This should P all of you off. I know it does me. Call me a Red Neck or what ever you want but why keep rewarding the ones that had their hand out when there are choices?

Chris

I am as repulsed as you are about it. I'm just saying if somebody keeps handing candy to a kid you don't whack the kid for taking it and not put a stop to the person handing it to them.

Vote out the Obama regime and demand the Congress STOP handing out the candy.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #255  
The whole system was corrupted in the early 1990's. The corruption was allowed because of Fannie May, Freddie Mac and the US government. The whole issue started when the government put pressure on lenders to give loans to people that were a very high risk. It also started allowing zero money down loans and no proof of employment loans. I'm making it a little simpler than it reall was, but I'm not far off. These things I doubt would have happened if they were either better regulated or not even around. Whats wrong with expecting people to put money down? Then the market wouldn't have exploded the way it did. Home prices wouldn't have skyrocketed and the bubble wouldn't have happened.

Lets not forget that the GM bailout was a little more than a loan program. GM was done if they got loans or not. Lets not forget that the bond holders were wiped out in this. Never before has a bankruptcy been handled this way. The reason people buy bonds is it is a safer investment than stock. This got stood on it's head in this bail out. GM's assets should have been sold off to pay back the secured investors. It was not, it was political payback. Many retirement funds and state funds had GM bonds and were affected in a big way because of this. Someone would have bought GM's assets, someone most likely would be making cars. The issue is the unions would have had to take a much bigger hit than they did.

GM still has the largest pension shortfall of any American company, estimated to be over 30 billion by years end. So I doubt the bailout for GM isn't over yet. Why are they any different than any other company?

It would be one thing if the government loaned money like they did Crysler in the 1980's. I would not have had an issue with a loan. They were able to walk away from a huge debt.

Really in the end, what has GM done to make sure this doesn't happen again? The volt?
Very well said. This is not over for them. Many predict they will be worse off the second time around.

As for the loans for homes thing. If the American public lived in their means like we were taught there would be no issue. Saving up for a down payment or saving up to pay cash was how I was raised. Yes, I have had a home loan and still do. I have also had auto loans and still do on my used 2007 BMW but I have never carried one longer than 3 years. I pay with every extra dime I have to get it down asap instead of taking vacations to Hawaii or getting the latest TV. GM is just like 1/2 of Americans now, living outside their means.

Chris
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #256  
Really in the end, what has GM done to make sure this doesn't happen again? The volt?

LMFAO

Now THAT was funny :laughing:
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #257  
GM is just like 1/2 of Americans now, living outside their means.
It's a different problem for corporations vs people. I don't think many of us understand how modern mega-corps finance their operations.

Let's say I'm Ford and I have twenty billion dollars in cash and marketable securities sitting around. I've had a good decade and the company has been earning a tidy profit. What should I do with that money?

Invest it back into manufacturing? Well, if I'm a union shop and I know that my total cost of manufacturing labor is four times what it is for Toyota, I really don't want to manufacture any more things in-house than I need to. So why build plants or expand existing ones if I can just out-source more part manufacturing to small businesses or overseas companies? It is clearly more cost-effective to let non-union shops build a widget than make it myself. So the only kind of manufacturing investment that makes sense is one that reduces union head-count (kills jobs.)

Invest it into research & development? Nothing wrong with this. But when the EPA rules are changing every few years, battery technology is getting more government subsidies in China than in the U.S., and fuel prices make it unclear what consumers are going to want in a few years, it's really hard to know what R&D is useful. Besides that, Wall Street now demands short-term performance from companies, and doubling your R&D budget is not that popular with stockholders (unfortunately.)

Continue to invest it in stocks and bonds? Companies do this all the time. Cash in the bank is just not something that is acceptable to them. Unfortunately, with a volatile stock market, you don't know what will happen or when.

Lend it to consumers at low interest rates to sell them more Ford vehicles? Make that payment number more attractive than the competing Chevy with GM-backed financing? Yes, certainly they did this and still do.

Now, after you look at all the above things, as a big corporation, if you run out of useful things to do with your money, you can't just save it for a rainy day. Investors won't tolerate this. Ford holding onto cash in case the economy stumbles and consumers are afraid to buy new cars? Never!

So what did Ford do? They gave out a $10 BILLION+ special dividend to stockholders because company insiders AND Wall Street just couldn't deal with that money sitting there collecting dust, and Ford management could not figure out a smart way to re-invest it into the business.

Every mega-corp has to make these kinds of decisions. It did not work very well for Ford -- some of the auto-related debt (as opposed to consumer-financing -related debt) they currently have is borrowed at insane interest rates. Yes, the company is doing quite well now, and they have dramatically reduced their debt load, including most of the outrageous interest rate bonds and credit lines; but it cost them a lot.

GM works the same. Chrysler. Airlines. Every big company. If they have cash sitting around, there is only two things that can happen: either it burns a hole in management's pocket so they find a way to spend it, or they pay it out in dividends or stock buy-backs, both of which are good IN THE SHORT TERM for investors. Often they are not good in the long term.

If you want to change this, good luck trying. A company sitting on a pile of cash is treated by Wall Street as a company with a factory sitting idle -- they think that pile of cash should be spent or invested so it produces profit, just like a factory produces goods. If you aren't doing either one, they want that money back.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #258  
This is not totally off topic but from the last post too add on a privately owned company will be able to produce a better product as they have more drive and incentive in them, but they don't have the resources for the money. If I was looking to get new construction equipment I would be really tempted to go JCB because it is private and I feel they are more likely to try and serve me. I really wish the MIDI CX had more than 25 PTO HP and I would be all over it. I think it is as good or better than Deere/Kubota in every other category. Corporations these days are so into what will please the stock holders tomorrow they put the company in jeopardy for tomorrow.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #259  
It's a different problem for corporations vs people. I don't think many of us understand how modern mega-corps finance their operations.

Let's say I'm Ford and I have twenty billion dollars in cash and marketable securities sitting around. I've had a good decade and the company has been earning a tidy profit. What should I do with that money?

Invest it back into manufacturing? Well, if I'm a union shop and I know that my total cost of manufacturing labor is four times what it is for Toyota, I really don't want to manufacture any more things in-house than I need to. So why build plants or expand existing ones if I can just out-source more part manufacturing to small businesses or overseas companies? It is clearly more cost-effective to let non-union shops build a widget than make it myself. So the only kind of manufacturing investment that makes sense is one that reduces union head-count (kills jobs.)

Invest it into research & development? Nothing wrong with this. But when the EPA rules are changing every few years, battery technology is getting more government subsidies in China than in the U.S., and fuel prices make it unclear what consumers are going to want in a few years, it's really hard to know what R&D is useful. Besides that, Wall Street now demands short-term performance from companies, and doubling your R&D budget is not that popular with stockholders (unfortunately.)

Continue to invest it in stocks and bonds? Companies do this all the time. Cash in the bank is just not something that is acceptable to them. Unfortunately, with a volatile stock market, you don't know what will happen or when.

Lend it to consumers at low interest rates to sell them more Ford vehicles? Make that payment number more attractive than the competing Chevy with GM-backed financing? Yes, certainly they did this and still do.

Now, after you look at all the above things, as a big corporation, if you run out of useful things to do with your money, you can't just save it for a rainy day. Investors won't tolerate this. Ford holding onto cash in case the economy stumbles and consumers are afraid to buy new cars? Never!

So what did Ford do? They gave out a $10 BILLION+ special dividend to stockholders because company insiders AND Wall Street just couldn't deal with that money sitting there collecting dust, and Ford management could not figure out a smart way to re-invest it into the business.

Every mega-corp has to make these kinds of decisions. It did not work very well for Ford -- some of the auto-related debt (as opposed to consumer-financing -related debt) they currently have is borrowed at insane interest rates. Yes, the company is doing quite well now, and they have dramatically reduced their debt load, including most of the outrageous interest rate bonds and credit lines; but it cost them a lot.

GM works the same. Chrysler. Airlines. Every big company. If they have cash sitting around, there is only two things that can happen: either it burns a hole in management's pocket so they find a way to spend it, or they pay it out in dividends or stock buy-backs, both of which are good IN THE SHORT TERM for investors. Often they are not good in the long term.

If you want to change this, good luck trying. A company sitting on a pile of cash is treated by Wall Street as a company with a factory sitting idle -- they think that pile of cash should be spent or invested so it produces profit, just like a factory produces goods. If you aren't doing either one, they want that money back.

Lets not forget the unions also, they wouldn't allow cash sitting either.

There are companies that do sit on cash, microsoft I believe is one of them. It can be and is done. The UAW is one of the strongest unions out there. They almost broke Caterpillar in the late 1980's. Actually Caterpillar is the exact opposite of the example you site. Cat brings more things in house to try and control the flow of parts and prevent what has happened in the past to GM.

I read a thing on GM probably 8-10 year ago that (really it was on the big 3, but GM was the one in the worse shape) they wouldn't survive. The unions was controlling GM, and they were taking too much. It was because the UAW not only controlled GM, but unions controlled the flow of parts. They were able to get many of the contracts to expire at the same time for suppliers. So if the GM workers went on strike, many of the parts places would threaten to strike if GM hired non-union to get by with. This was refered to as a bottleneck strike and would cripple a company.

The reason other car makers can make it is they aren't unionized or are in right to work states.

Not all unions are bad, but the big ones get too powerfull and in many cases kill the goose that got them the golden eggs.
 
   / Anyone else holding out for new 2013 Chevy/GMC truck? #260  
jagyzf said:
Not all unions are bad, but the big ones get too powerfull and in many cases kill the goose that got them the golden eggs.

To me this is the majority of the problem. I grew up on union dollars but will never work for one. I have seen the greed lose jobs so quick your head will spin. My father flipped sides the last 15 years he worked and was plant manager and VP of the company he had worked as a union employee for 30 years and can't believe what he bought into.

Right To Work and dismantling of unions will be the only thing giving the US a fighting chance to get back on track as a manufacturing super power. To me Unions=Special Interest Groups. The largest out there.

Chris
 
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