How in the world did I break this (ck20hst)? And some questions.

[Coyote machine]

Hi all-

Sorry I didn't a chance to scan the front axle stuff from the shop manual / parts manual last night. I did get to it tonight and I've put the PDF's on my web server.

The 4 one page files are from the "Parts Manual CK20". This manual is Kioti Part # S196-P04 dated June 2006. I believe this covers just CK20 (not CK20S) and I've been told there are updates all the time, but I think this will be good info for you even if it's not the latest rev.

The 2 multi-page files are the entire Chapter 7 of the "Workshop Manual". Chapter 7 is the "Front Axle" -- this manual is Kioti Part # S196-W00 from October 2006

Here is the web link to where I have the PDF files sitting:

Index of /ck20-front-axle

Just download each file and look at them with a PDF reader (Adobe.com). Suggest printing the chapter 7 odd pages and even pages and put them in order to make it easier. I used an auto-feed scanner and had to scan one side of each page first, then the other side.

Hope this helps! Best of luck getting that axle / spindle back together.

You need to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use policy of TBN, Go to Home, Terms of Use, section 9, Copyright infringement. You cannot copy pages from a service manual and post it here. You can be tossed off the site permanently for doing things like that, and as a software guy you should know better. Because you buy a service manual does not give you or me or anyone else the right to copy and post pages from it. You agreed as did we all on TBN to the terms when we signed up for access to the site.

 

[Dmace]

Just a FYI. "Sharing" information is not a copyright infringement. If he was charging a fee for the information then it would be. How do you think all these music and file sharing sites get by.
Lighten up.

Thanks for the info Malk, these manuals should come with the tractors.

 

[malk315]

It's not a copyright violation.

As a software guy I am indeed very familiar with copyright and software.
In court this would be seen as no different than inviting you guys over to look at the manual or copying a few pages and handing out to friends.

The music thing becomes a problem when this is done on a mass scale of complete original works. That's not happening here.

It goes back to 1980's case with VCR tapes -- a court ruled it's NOT illegal to copy a movie and give it to your friends to watch. Back in the 80's this was no problem since a circle of friends you share with is limited. With the internet this "sharing with your friends" becomes a fine line -- like w/ napster is sharing a song with 100,000 "friends" that really aren't friends seen as OK by the ruling from the 1980's on VCR tape copying -- no. And this is the beef the music people have and rightfully so.

Also -- if what you are saying applies to other TBN users, you need to kick off Rick Wallace too -- he's posted pages from parts manual on occasion to help people. In fact he's in worse shape under your statements because he posted the pages right on TBN hosted here. My pages are on my website, not TBN and I notified a handful of people to take a look at them -- sharing as Derek says. So if the AUP for TBN says you cannot share copyrighted stuff or whatever on TBN, I didn't post the documents on TBN -- they're on my site.

If they want to kick me off, so be it. But make sure they kick off Rick and any other dealers on here who have posted pages from shop / parts manuals.

If someone wanted me to scan the entire shop manual and parts manual, I would simply say no and suggest they just buy them -- much nicer that way anyway (comes in a nice binder etc). In this case I'm trying to help a guy who is tight on cash and wants to tackle this himself. The handful of pages looked to me like they could be a big help once he has parts and wants do the reassembly w/o introducing new problems. Plus since he has part numbers available, he can easily order parts doing business w/ a dealer and Kioti -- if I remember right though his dealer got Kioti to agree to supply parts on Kioti's tab even though he's beyond warranty?

Anyway -- that's my response.

 

[Coyote machine]

Just a FYI. "Sharing" information is not a copyright infringement. If he was charging a fee for the information then it would be. How do you think all these music and file sharing sites get by.
Lighten up.

Thanks for the info Malk, these manuals should come with the tractors.

First off: WRONG! see link~ permission granted by author:10 Big Myths about copyright explained

AND music and file sharing are covered in the article as well for your and others edification.

Additionally, not knowing the law pertaining to copy write protected material is no excuse in the eyes of the law.

You state:
"..these manuals should come with the tractors." Really?!:laughing::confused2:

Dream on! No service manuals come with the equipment that they apply to; for the same reasons that spare parts aren't given away with tractors, etc. because the manufacturer is in business to make money.

I'll lighten up when people do what is required of them by agreement on TBN.

I know facts can be confusing to some.

 

[Coyote machine]

It's not a copyright violation.

As a software guy I am indeed very familiar with copyright and software.
In court this would be seen as no different than inviting you guys over to look at the manual or copying a few pages and handing out to friends.

The music thing becomes a problem when this is done on a mass scale of complete original works. That's not happening here. No one suggested it was.

It goes back to 1980's case with VCR tapes -- a court ruled it's NOT illegal to copy a movie and give it to your friends to watch. Back in the 80's this was no problem since a circle of friends you share with is limited. With the internet this "sharing with your friends" becomes a fine line -- like w/ napster is sharing a song with 100,000 "friends" that really aren't friends seen as OK by the ruling from the 1980's on VCR tape copying -- no. And this is the beef the music people have and rightfully so.

We're not discussing music here, but you keep referring to it anyway?!
Also -- if what you are saying applies to other TBN users, you need to kick off Rick Wallace too -- he's posted pages from parts manual on occasion to help people. In fact he's in worse shape under your statements{not MY statements~ merely notifying you of your agreed to obligation under the TBN Terms of Use agreement} because he posted the pages right on TBN hosted here. My pages are on my website, not TBN and I notified a handful of people( you.." notified a handful of people"... to take a look at them -- sharing as Derek says. Really? Do a Google search of the title of the thread you are posting in...its there for anyone in the world to see, hence not a few people notified, regardless of your supposed intention. So if the AUP for TBN says you cannot share copyrighted stuff or whatever on TBN, I didn't post the documents on TBN -- they're on my site. So you think that by just linking to your web site that frees you of any agreements/obligations to posting here on TBN- think again, just because you wish it to be so doesn't make it so.

If they want to kick me off, so be it. Agreed, and they may just decide to do that, I merely warned you that you should famialize yourself with the TOU policy of TBN. But make sure they kick off Rick and any other dealers on here who have posted pages from shop / parts manuals.

NOT my job, its the admins job to do whatever they choose under the agreement we are all obligated to comply with. And Rick is a manufacturer's representative, so he is under different requirements than us as users of TBN. Take it up with him instead of trying to take the focus off of your actions.


If someone wanted me to scan the entire shop manual and parts manual, I would simply say no and suggest they just buy them -- much nicer that way anyway (comes in a nice binder etc). In this case I'm trying to help a guy who is tight on cash and wants to tackle this himself. The handful of pages looked to me like they could be a big help once he has parts and wants do the reassembly w/o introducing new problems. Plus since he has part numbers available, he can easily order parts doing business w/ a dealer and Kioti -- if I remember right though his dealer got Kioti to agree to supply parts on Kioti's tab even though he's beyond warranty?

The above is once again totally irrelevant to this issue- your infringement of copyrighted materials... the intent on your part is just another excuse in your justification of your actions- just take responsibility and admit you ought not to do what you did and move on. I'm the messenger- NOT the guilty party.
Just MY response.

Anyway -- that's my response.

See above inserted text (in blue) as my response to your response.

Thanks,

CM

 

[IndyIan]

You state:
"..these manuals should come with the tractors." Really?!:laughing::confused2:

Dream on! No service manuals come with the equipment that they apply to; for the same reasons that spare parts aren't given away with tractors, etc. because the manufacturer is in business to make money.

I think the manufacturers should give a link to the shop manuals online for free in this, the digital age. They have to make them up anyways for their dealers, and it costs near zero to host a site to distribute them. I bet right now that they probably loose money dealing in paper ones... Multiple tiny print runs and then updates, etc, seems dumb to me.
I grudgingly agree that posting parts of the manual online for anyone to see is technically illegal, but someone at Kioti must of seen the whole 740pg EX/DKSE pdf shop manual link by now and its still up so maybe they don't really care to much?

 

[Coyote machine]

I think the manufacturers should give a link to the shop manuals online for free in this, the digital age. They have to make them up anyways for their dealers, and it costs near zero to host a site to distribute them. I bet right now that they probably loose money dealing in paper ones... Multiple tiny print runs and then updates, etc, seems dumb to me.
I grudgingly agree that posting parts of the manual online for anyone to see is technically illegal, but someone at Kioti must of seen the whole 740pg EX/DKSE pdf shop manual link by now and its still up so maybe they don't really care to much?

Agree 100%! Have talked to Kioti Headquarters about this- its a waste of trees and shipping/handling, and I suspect, as you do, that its not profitable at all considering the number of pages in a shop manual. The manual you refer to is out of Australia, I believe, if we're talking about the ones I've seen on TBN. And to my knowledge Kioti doesn't do ANY updates, at least not for consumers, from my prior inquires to Kioti dealers and headquarters.
I'd love to see digital access to all data regarding Kioti tractors, service, owners manuals, etc. IMHO their web site is like a lot of 1/2 a*^ed web sites- poorly laid out, and just about useless vs. what it could be. Apologies to the OP for derailing the thread.

 

[beppington]

I dunno guys - If the manufacturer makes up detailed product documentation, do they owe it to us for free, when it obviously has value? Not to mention, it would take away some of the money they'd make from repairs done by their dealerships.

 

[juanillo]

Hi all-

Sorry I didn't a chance to scan the front axle stuff from the shop manual / parts manual last night. I did get to it tonight and I've put the PDF's on my web server.

The 4 one page files are from the "Parts Manual CK20". This manual is Kioti Part # S196-P04 dated June 2006. I believe this covers just CK20 (not CK20S) and I've been told there are updates all the time, but I think this will be good info for you even if it's not the latest rev.

The 2 multi-page files are the entire Chapter 7 of the "Workshop Manual". Chapter 7 is the "Front Axle" -- this manual is Kioti Part # S196-W00 from October 2006

Here is the web link to where I have the PDF files sitting:

Index of /ck20-front-axle

Just download each file and look at them with a PDF reader (Adobe.com). Suggest printing the chapter 7 odd pages and even pages and put them in order to make it easier. I used an auto-feed scanner and had to scan one side of each page first, then the other side.

Hope this helps! Best of luck getting that axle / spindle back together.

Thank you sooo much! Going to study this tonight and call my dealer thise weekend.

I really am bummed since it has so few hours and I never abuse it. About 90% of the work I've done is shredding which is pretty low impact.

 

[juanillo]

Hi all-

Sorry I didn't a chance to scan the front axle stuff from the shop manual / parts manual last night. I did get to it tonight and I've put the PDF's on my web server.

The 4 one page files are from the "Parts Manual CK20". This manual is Kioti Part # S196-P04 dated June 2006. I believe this covers just CK20 (not CK20S) and I've been told there are updates all the time, but I think this will be good info for you even if it's not the latest rev.

The 2 multi-page files are the entire Chapter 7 of the "Workshop Manual". Chapter 7 is the "Front Axle" -- this manual is Kioti Part # S196-W00 from October 2006

Here is the web link to where I have the PDF files sitting:

Index of /ck20-front-axle

Just download each file and look at them with a PDF reader (Adobe.com). Suggest printing the chapter 7 odd pages and even pages and put them in order to make it easier. I used an auto-feed scanner and had to scan one side of each page first, then the other side.

Hope this helps! Best of luck getting that axle / spindle back together.

Thank you sooo much! Going to study this tonight and call my dealer thise weekend.

I really am bummed since it has so few hours and I never abuse it. About 90% of the work I've done is shredding which is pretty low impact.