Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[JasG]

Another issue with the Hybrid and electrical cars. They are being marketed as a "green" car that is better than a gasser. This may have come up already, but most of the studies I have seen show they are worse because of the amount of resources they use. Copper, lithium and a bunch of rare earth metals all come from mining. Many far from where the batteries and other parts are being made.

Here are a couple of articles on the subject.

Chinese Electric Car Pollution More Harmful to Humans Than Gas Cars - US News and World Report

http://www.technologyreview.in/energy/37344/

 

[powerpace]

I almost expected you to say that the car washed and buffed itself and made you breakfast every Sunday.



.

Helllloooo friend.
No, none of that. But it doe's save me enough money so that when I go to the restaurant Saturday morning I get the car washed at the same time.

I get the impression that most people that are complaining about alternative energy cars never drove one, and really have no clue how they work. I correct peoples misinformation about the Prius each time I drive it. There is no huge size battery in the Prius. It's not much bigger than a RV or Marine Deep Cycle battery. It has another battery that is the same size as a motorcycle battery.

 

[ultrarunner]

Precisely what I think about the Model T. Ridiculous. You have to feed it fuel that cannot be grown on the farm, it has limited range and is only popular because it is a new fangled gadget. It will never sell.

We had a Model T that would run on alcohol distilled right on the farm from grain gown on the farm... actually these types of conversions alcohol and kerosene where not all that unusual...

I've got 3 Models T's and I was wondering why I couldn't sell them...

 

[ultrarunner]

Helllloooo friend.
No, none of that. But it doe's save me enough money so that when I go to the restaurant Saturday morning I get the car washed at the same time.

I get the impression that most people that are complaining about alternative energy cars never drove one, and really have no clue how they work. I correct peoples misinformation about the Prius each time I drive it. There is no huge size battery in the Prius. It's not much bigger than a RV or Marine Deep Cycle battery. It has another battery that is the same size as a motorcycle battery.

I've driven a Mercedes that runs on Grease... except of the smell of French Fries... can't really tell a difference...

As I look out the window right now I see 3 Prius, 2 Leaf, Hybrid Toyota SUV and two Ford Escape Hybrids...

Most bought so they could avoid tolls and drive single in the carpool lances...

 

[Monster5601]

Sensible Nick: currently the government is offering a 10G incentive to buy a Chevy Volt. I find this disgusting as I do not wish my tax dollars to support any individuals' life style.

Actually, the tax break is FOR ANY plug in battery car. The amount of the tax break is based on the battery size.

The Chevy Volt has a $7,500.00 tax break.

Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D)

 

[Monster5601]

Another $40K car with limited range. Ford and GM both know better or are they that out of touch with reality?

Remember there is a development cycle that is typically three or more years long. When Ford started the electric Focus program, hybrid vehicles were the talk of the town.

 

[rd_macgregor]

When debating the relative cost/efficiency of energy supply, adding up the losses in each stage of the electricity supply chain is fine, as long as you are also willing to add up those in the petroleum supply chain (and I'm not even insisting on adding in relative environmental externalities). Coal is still cheaper per BTU at source and I think it might even be cheaper to ship electricity than a heavy liquid fuel (per delivered btu). Control of emissions at a very large central power plant is also easier/cheaper than for numerous (sketchily-maintained) mobile units.
I'd endorse the comment about cost per mile, though. When full life-cycle cost per mile becomes competitive for electrics (NOT counting government market distortions!!), I'll start considering them.

BOB

 

[houstonscott]

Yeah, people would be horrified to find out their green hybrid car is responsible for the destruction of the Serengeti National Park, by creating the demand that will put a super highway right through the Park. Why do the greens always seem to shot themselves in the foot? There just is nothing good about electric cars or hybrid cars.

Serengeti Road Plan and the Search for Rare Earths | Rare Earth Investing News

HS

 

[arrow]

Actually, the tax break is FOR ANY plug in battery car. The amount of the tax break is based on the battery size.

The Chevy Volt has a $7,500.00 tax break.

Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D)

And some state governments are giving additional incentives to get this thing to $10,000 and more. I'm one to believe all government should stay out of this kind of thing all together. I remember in the early 80's when the government gave credits for things like solar panels. All it did was to increase the cost of installation and product as the vendors used these incentives to jack up prices.

 

[IslandTractor]

Yeah, people would be horrified to find out their green hybrid car is responsible for the destruction of the Serengeti National Park, by creating the demand that will put a super highway right through the Park. Why do the greens always seem to shot themselves in the foot? There just is nothing good about electric cars or hybrid cars.

Serengeti Road Plan and the Search for Rare Earths | Rare Earth Investing News

HS

Shall we also consider the impact of Exxon Valdez, BP Gulf etc etc in the non financial costs of driving dinofuel vehicles?

I don't think electrics are ready for prime time but the only way they will get there is to pay for some development costs up front. I don't have any more trouble with rebates/credits for electrics than I do for agricultural subsidies or deductions for business expenses for things like entertainment or for exaggerated depreciation schedules such as Section 179. Each is designed to encourage some sort of "public" good and IMO are equivalent.