Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[SPYDERLK]

Dont forget the motors. ... The Honda Civic would do 50+ on the road back in the eighties. Could probably squeeze a few extra with todays technology.
larry

Honda Civic in the 1980's weighed less and had a smaller engine than the 2012 version. Today's cars are quite a bit heavier and higher performing with bigger engines.

1985 Honda Civic Sedan weighed 2510lbs and rated at 26/31mpg city/highway with a 1.5l 76hp motor.

2011 Civic Sedan weighed 2749lbs and rated at 25/36mpg with 1.8l 140hp motor.

I was referring to electric motors [actual motors] adding to weight to consider on a hybrid. Weight does have some effect on mileage, but more critical is frontal area and aerodynamics, along with mechanical low friction components, and tires. The example of the 50mpg Civics and todays cluster in the 50 to 60 range is just showing the top achievable with gasoline in a compact car. Look at the huge effort to get the extra couple MPG since what already existed in the eighties. Yould do better for on road cruise just computerizing the old tech and updating the bearings and tires. For stop and go tho, the regen braking offered by hybrid is a real good solution.
larry

 

[IslandTractor]

I would be a buyer of a 1/2 ton F-150 with a diesel that had equal to or better than the Eco Boost if it could get 25% better mpg. If not I will stick with gas.

This is from the owner of 4 diesel trucks. They are expensive to maintain and cost even more to buy upfront. And if they break you better dig deep. Gas is so much simpler, cheaper to buy, and maintain.

There would have to be a significant mpg boost for me to go down the road again.

Chris

I know that emissions controls have been a big part of the increased cost of buying and maintaining a diesel. However I think the problem might be our desire to get high output/liter as much as the emissions stuff. It is so striking that the most reliable vehicles in the world are probably the Toyota diesel pickups (1/4 ton size) that go FOREVER on minimal maintenance in the developing world. I'd love to see a moderate hp 2.5-3.0 liter diesel in a Ranger sized (I call them 1/4 ton) pickup like the older Tacoma, Frontier etc. To me moderate power would be 100hp/200ft/lbs. Probably need turbo to get that power but turbo is pretty darn reliable these days. Those vehicles would never tow 15,000lbs or win drag races but they'd get great mileage and more than anything would be bullet proof.

 

[LD1]

I would be a buyer of a 1/2 ton F-150 with a diesel that had equal to or better than the Eco Boost if it could get 25% better mpg. If not I will stick with gas.

This is from the owner of 4 diesel trucks. They are expensive to maintain and cost even more to buy upfront. And if they break you better dig deep. Gas is so much simpler, cheaper to buy, and maintain.

There would have to be a significant mpg boost for me to go down the road again.

Chris

Seeing the MPG's that big diesels that push gobbs of torque and HP are getting,

I am certain they are capable of a midsize diesel that would be perfect in a 1/2 ton that could do 30+ easy enough. Think somewhere about midway between the VW TDI cars, and what we have now in the 1-tons from the big 3.:thumbsup:

 

[powerpace]

Honda Civic in the 1980's weighed less and had a smaller engine than the 2012 version. Today's cars are quite a bit heavier and higher performing with bigger engines.

1985 Honda Civic Sedan weighed 2510lbs and rated at 26/31mpg city/highway with a 1.5l 76hp motor.

2011 Civic Sedan weighed 2749lbs and rated at 25/36mpg with 1.8l 140hp motor.

They didn't last long because of the smaller motor having to work harder. You were lucky to get 80,000 miles. Most cars made from 1950's to 1980's had planned obsolescence designs. Changing the style each year was created desire for the next model year. They assumed people would buy new every three to four years. Cars were designed to last only a few years or no more than 100,000 miles. Then they would stop supporting that model by not providing repair parts.

 

[ultrarunner]

Some of these ideas are great... the only problem is many parts of the country it is illegal to make any changes/alterations to auto power plants.

I ran the timing 2 degrees advanced from the factory spec in 91 350ci pickup... truck tows better, runs cooler and I use premium... so no knock. Ran afoul of emission test.

Another point is vehicles are now being sold with expiration dates... I kid you not.

Just about diesel powered truck or equipment 50hp or more sold has an expiration date as to the last day it can be operated...

Who would have thought this would have jumped started the market for Gasser's? Gas engines are going for a premium and the diesel are headed out of California.

 

[aczlan]

They didn't last long because of the smaller motor having to work harder. You were lucky to get 80,000 miles. Most cars made from 1950's to 1980's had planned obsolescence designs. Changing the style each year was created desire for the next model year. They assumed people would buy new every three to four years. Cars were designed to last only a few years or no more than 100,000 miles. Then they would stop supporting that model by not providing repair parts.

My little sister has a '89 Civic. It has ~220k miles (was a GA car) and is on its 3 sibling.

Aaron Z

 

[powerpace]

My little sister has a '89 Civic. It has ~220k miles (was a GA car) and is on its 3 sibling.

Aaron Z

That's one!

 

[IslandTractor]

My little sister has a '89 Civic. It has ~220k miles (was a GA car) and is on its 3 sibling.

Aaron Z

In New England, small Hondas and Toyotas die of salt poisoning long before their engines give out. Same for Subarus.

 

[aczlan]

In New England, small Hondas and Toyotas die of salt poisoning long before their engines give out. Same for Subarus.

The car lived in GA until 2007ish, so it has almost no rust.

Aaron Z

 

[timswi]

The Honda that got 50mpg in the 80's was a CRX HF...I perfectly good car, but it was a beer can with absurd insurance rates as it was a 2 seater and considered a "sports car"..NOT!!

I drove them when I worked for Honda at the time...Good car, but wouldn't want to meet a Suburban or a 16oz Coors Light can head on.