Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[two_bit_score]

What beating. IT is refuting every point the reactionaries throw at him.

But the hasn't effectively refuted anything the conservatives have brought up. And I haven't seen any 'reactionaries' around here.



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[IslandTractor]

I rejected your weak and ineffective theories regarding anything past tractors long ago. That's why almost all of my comments regarding your statements are brief and to the point. There is no use in waiting much time on you.
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You are just yammering now.

Here is my summary of events: A private petroleum industry funded newsletter commissioned a writer to do a story on comparing a fuel efficient gas vehicle with the Volt and wanted to address what price the gas would have to be in order to have the Volt be cost effective. Fair enough. To do this analysis one must make assumptions and one must agree to a fair formula to put into a spreadsheet to run the analysis. This is the problem point. You can reverse engineer any price per gallon you want by playing with the assumptions and calculations in your model. The honest way to do this analysis is to state your assumptions up front and to also show the calculation formula. Perhaps those elements were in fact published in the newsletter body but they were not mentioned in the press release that is available via internet sources. Only the $12.50/gallon headline figure ever made it into any of the news reports I could find. The various websites that carried the story simply regurgitated the press release and as far as I can find, no independent reporter or economist has published any critique or analysis of the whole study. That doesn't invalidate the study per se but it sure makes one wonder if there is something hidden (It must be a characteristic of pinko commies that we actually like to confirm data and the validity of the analysis before spouting off but I won't go there right now).

There are many examples from industry where their marketing people fund private studies to prove a point regardless of the truth. It is a common practice because most of the time people just read the headlines and don't think critically about data or analysis. The oil industry certainly does this and to be fair, the electric vehicle industry absolutely does it too. I don't know whether the $12.50 figure is hogwash but I suspect it is. I do know that until the underlying analysis is available for review that I would not give it any credence. I'm not going to spend several hundred bucks to get the newsletter and I doubt 2 bit will either. That is why I suggest that the $12.50/gallon figure just be ignored. Let's move on. Nobody disputes that the Volt is not cost effective right now. It should be fairly easy to calculate a range of costs depending on various assumptions with all assumptions and formulas transparently presented and that is the honest way to do the study in question. Too complicated for 24/7 news headlines however and a detailed analysis doesn't suit the purposes of the industry that funds the newsletter so it is unlikely to happen.

 

[two_bit_score]

You are just yammering now.

That is why I suggest that the $12.50/gallon figure just be ignored. Let's move on. Nobody disputes that the Volt is not cost effective right now. It should be fairly easy to calculate a range of costs depending on various assumptions with all assumptions and formulas transparently presented and that is the honest way to do the study in question. Too complicated for 24/7 news headlines however and a detailed analysis doesn't suit the purposes of the industry that funds the newsletter so it is unlikely to happen.

You still offer no evidence that the conclusion as reported is not accurate.

$12.50 or $10 a gallon. It's still not cost effective. Yet taxpayers are funding it $7500 per car and Obama wants to increase it yo $10,000 per car.



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[Oaktree]

Oaktree
Prius fanboi. Name calling. tsk.

If you read all of my posts you would see that I have saved enough fuel in 4 years of driving that I could almost have bought any of the lower priced cars around. The problem is they would have been relegated to the junkyard by now with the mileage I drive. I plan to put 250,000 before this Prius is retired. Prius Taxi's have already been driven over 250,000 mile and no problems. Every time fuel prices go up makes my point even stronger.

(some snippage)

I find that driving a Prius is much easier driving most cars of similar class. Each person has their own preferences in driveability and performance. The point I am making is you drive your car for your reasons and I drive mine for my reasons.
Oaktree I don't think you drove a Prius.

It was definitely a Prius. Circa 2006 vintage. Maybe the newer ones are different, haven't driven one since.

Name calling not intended, it's just that your posts read like either a paid testimonial or a diehard fan. Apologies if that's not the case. If image isn't a big part of why people buy a hybrid, why is the hybrid Camry a relatively poor seller...it's basically the same car in a conventional body.

As far as longevity goes...it's hard to say. How long a vehicle lasts is highly dependent on how well it's taken care of. Here in northern New England it's rare to see many vehicles make it to 250K...rust usually gets 'em first...Japanese vehicles tend to succomb a few years earlier than American or European makes. Sucks, but we live with it. The Prius I drove didn't feel like something that would stand up long-term...everything was so lightweight and flimsy-feeling, I'm sure to save weight.

My point was not to bash Priuii (or what ever the plural of Prius is)...for better or worse, they seem to be the best of the eco-cars, but for my money they're not worth the price premium or the inconvenience of needing to bring it to the dealer for any service.

 

[EE_Bota]

My point was not to bash Priuii (or what ever the plural of Prius is)...for better or worse, they seem to be the best of the eco-cars, but for my money they're not worth the price premium or the inconvenience of needing to bring it to the dealer for any service.

The plural of Prius is "more than one Prius." I hope this helps. :laughing:

 

[mjncad]

Anybody have any idea how many 1st generation Prius's are on used car lots?

I suspect what will happen with hybrid cars is that by the time the battery pack finally needs replacing, the battery pack will cost as much or more than what the car is worth at that time.

So if the car will run solely on the gas engine, people will continue to do so until the rest of the car pukes as they won't be able to justify the cost of a replacement battery pack; but in the meantime the gas engine wastes fuel dragging along a useless battery pack and other assorted electric drive components.

As I've probably said before; the electric drive components are ready, what isn't is an affordable energy storage system with a predictable range regardless of weather, and a quick way to recharge the things. Until a quick recharge long lasting battery pack made of affordable unobtanium becomes a reality electric vehicles will serve niche markets and purposes.

In the meantime while the magic battery pack is being found, clean diesel technology is probably our best bet for increasing fossil fuel efficiency. After all, if the persnickety socialist Europeans embrace diesels, than we should be able to also. My guess is the EPA is the biggest hindrance to greater diesel adoption in cars in this country.

 

[EE_Bota]

Anybody have any idea how many 1st generation Prius's are on used car lots?

I suspect what will happen with hybrid cars is that by the time the battery pack finally needs replacing, the battery pack will cost as much or more than what the car is worth at that time.

So if the car will run solely on the gas engine, people will continue to do so until the rest of the car pukes as they won't be able to justify the cost of a replacement battery pack; but in the meantime the gas engine wastes fuel dragging along a useless battery pack and other assorted electric drive components.

As I've probably said before; the electric drive components are ready, what isn't is an affordable energy storage system with a predictable range regardless of weather, and a quick way to recharge the things. Until a quick recharge long lasting battery pack made of affordable unobtanium becomes a reality electric vehicles will serve niche markets and purposes.

In the meantime while the magic battery pack is being found, clean diesel technology is probably our best bet for increasing fossil fuel efficiency. After all, if the persnickety socialist Europeans embrace diesels, than we should be able to also. My guess is the EPA is the biggest hindrance to greater diesel adoption in cars in this country.

I saw in the news yesterday where the EPA drove the final nail into the coal industry casket. In the same story, I saw where natural gas is being singled out next for scrutiny in April. Apparently they EPA manufactures unobtainium.

 

[IslandTractor]

I saw in the news yesterday where the EPA drove the final nail into the coal industry casket. In the same story, I saw where natural gas is being singled out next for scrutiny in April. Apparently they EPA manufactures unobtainium.

Are you referring to proposed rules on disposal of coal ash? How would that destroy the coal industry? Gotta put the stuff somewhere safe after all. Do you want it in your backyard?

 

[EE_Bota]

Are you referring to proposed rules on disposal of coal ash?

No.

How would that destroy the coal industry?

I don't know.

Gotta put the stuff somewhere safe after all.

Agreed!

Do you want it in your backyard?

Perhaps...for a fee. Gotta put is somewhere safe, as you said.

Saw the story on the television. If I can find it online, I will post a link. I was tired from reading the oral arguments to the Supremes, so if I had to quote the story to you would be something like: Justice Sotomayer of the EPA was looking for limiting concepts of health care insurance related CO2 emissions of coal fired natural rights plants."

Edit: Never read the Sacramento Bee, but this is what I was referring to

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/28/4371449/new-epa-rules-expected-to-halt.html

 

[5030]

Saw an ad on the tube last night for the new Fiat (500??). Loks like a smooshed volkswagen. What a butt ugly car.

Bet they (Fiat-Chrysler) sell a pile here....not.