Buying a new Truck

[toppop52]

GM has had a smaller version of the Duramax production ready since '08 but due to the financial problems and economy in general has held off.

 

[Diamondpilot]

It would certainly be nice but with the high diesel prices and rediculous EPA standards, will it be worth it? The RAM CEO said they have the ability and design to put a small V8 Cummins diesel in the RAM 1500 but doesn't believe there's a market for them.
Chrysler CEO: Light-Duty Diesel Ram Pickup Feasible, but is There Demand? - PickupTrucks.com News

I agree. You would have to be looking at 30 mpg for me to be a buyer. Especially since I have seen 26 mpg in my dads Eco Boost at 60 mph and its averaged 18 mpg for its now 11,000 miles.

I do close in my 6 year old F-350. Its averaged about 17 mpg tank to tank since new and with a few mods I can get nearly 24 mpg on the highway.

The extra cost just may not be worth it much like a diesel car versus say a Civic or then again the hybrids versus something like the Cruize.

If GM does make it first to market it will either save them or brake them on truck sales. While the numbers have been good for the last 2 years or so they are selling them at a wash to gain market share and loyalty back. There has been nothing exciting about them to me for 15 years so this may get them back in the hunt.

Chris

 

[jejeosborne]

It lets you see how they arrived at the total. The more information you see equals more opportunities for you to find a way to save. I agree that some of the fees are fixed but so are some of the cost of the vehicle. You asked for advice on how to make a deal and that is what I was trying to give. But then again you told another poster that you know how to play the game so I guess I don't understand your POV either.

I guess I don't understand this POV.
If their total vehicle cost is higher, but the fees are lower, what's the difference?
Sales tax and licensing fees are pretty well set here. It's not like the dealer can play with these figures anyways. I ask for the "out the door" price because I find most will give you a ,xxx + fees type of quote, and the fees can add up fast.
What I'm referring to on fees are things like dealer prep, delivery fee, etc. Tax, title, and license are set already.

What I am looking for is good solid adivce on how to make a deal.
Please don't mention anything about "ask to see the invoice", only a fool would follow that route. I have bought several new vehicles, but none in the last few years.

I know how to play the game.
First thing I tell the salesmen when working a deal is that I deal in "drive out price only"....not Price+Fees. They they start blabbering about % this and inventory taxes that....I tell 'em however they need to work it. Drive out price only. I have a number I want for my trade. I don't care about the payments....only what the numbers add up to.

So I din't win anything? Your response was that you were "only partially right". The final ratio of the 1st and final gear is only half the story. The thing to look for is the difference in the spread. You can then make up your total gearing by changing the rear end ratio as Dmace mentioned. The object is obviously keeping the engine in the "power band" during acceleration. There is a reason over the road truck have so many gears. COME ON, I DESERVE A DONUT!

Meh....I am really un-moved by these "8" speed transmissions.
I would bet dollars to donuts that first gear and 8th gear have almost the same final drive as a 4 or 5 speed tranny. So I doubt it would help much on the highway.

5-speed
1st = 3.00:1
5th = .67:1

6 Speed
1st = 3.00:1
6th = .67:1

This is exactly what I'm referring to on the 5&6 speeds. I'm too lazy to look it up but I'm willing to bet that the first and final ratio's for a 4-speed aren't much different.

8 speed
1st = 4.7:1
8th = .67:1

Looks like I was only partially right. First gear is really low, 8th has the exact same final drive as 5&6 speeds, and probably not much different than the older 4 speeds.
Yeah, I get you on the gearing. But I just wonder how much "better" all these extra gears are cruising on the highway in top gear.
Guess I'll be finding out soon. I'll probably be on here preaching how more gears are better in 6 months.

 

[toppop52]

If GM does make it first to market it will either save them or brake them on truck sales. While the numbers have been good for the last 2 years or so they are selling them at a wash to gain market share and loyalty back.

I can't find a single piece of evidence to prove that is true.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I can't find a single piece of evidence to prove that is true.

Look at the pricing locally. Around here they are selling them for 6K or less than a comparable Ford, Toyota, or Dodge. Nissan is also selling them cheap right now to keep them moving with the older design.

Its been since the early 2000's since I seen a lease deal for $300 a month for a 4x4 truck with crew cab and decent option list.

Chris

 

[toppop52]

Total light truck sales through March were;
GM-352480
Ford-344797
Chrysler-277681

I guess I'm missing where this pressure is coming from to sell at cost.

 

[WilliamBos]

I agree. You would have to be looking at 30 mpg for me to be a buyer. Especially since I have seen 26 mpg in my dads Eco Boost at 60 mph and its averaged 18 mpg for its now 11,000 miles.

I do close in my 6 year old F-350. Its averaged about 17 mpg tank to tank since new and with a few mods I can get nearly 24 mpg on the highway.

The extra cost just may not be worth it much like a diesel car versus say a Civic or then again the hybrids versus something like the Cruize.

If GM does make it first to market it will either save them or brake them on truck sales. While the numbers have been good for the last 2 years or so they are selling them at a wash to gain market share and loyalty back. There has been nothing exciting about them to me for 15 years so this may get them back in the hunt.

Chris

VW TDI (manual) are getting 1,500 km /937 miles from a tank of diesel. There is not a comparable sized gas car out there that comes close.

A light duty (1500) diesel truck will sell, especially for those of us that use their truck like a truck. Look at all the 1500 series that GM sold in the past, they were the only one to offer it, and many are still on the road today! They have a loyal, almost cult following!

The anti diesel attitude here Canada/USA needs to change, especially when compared to the rest of the planet!

I would buy one in a heart beat!

 

[TheGoose]

You know DP everybody knows you are anti-GM but sometimes you let your prejudice get in the way of rational thinking.

449,629

358,762

These are the amount of light duty trucks sold by Ford and GM for 2011. I clearly believe that GM is "in the game".

 

[Diamondpilot]

There is no way any manufacture will be in the game unless they change. That is what I was trying to say. Ford has the Eco Boost that will only get better with time and the addition of a 8 speed tranny. The Hemi is a perfect example of a company changing to do what is needed. The tricks to the motor and the 8 speed tranny will make it a great combo that will keep them selling like hot cakes.

My Titan for exmaple is a truck falling behind. I bought it in 08 and its unchanged since. At the time the were at the top of the class with tow ratings, diff lockers, nav, backup camera, center shift, power, ect. But today it does not cut it and I would not buy one today. When I purchased it was the truck.

GM having a diesel option will keep them hot. Without it and some other major changes and Ford and Dodge having so much new technology you would have seen them fall off quick.

Now its time for Toyota to make a major move.

Chris

 

[TheGoose]

I agree with this.

For me to drive a diesel it would have to be ~4-4.5L, ~250 HP, 400-500 on torque, 25-30 mpg highway. Of course I would probably customize the emissions

I was hugely disappointed when the EB mileage was announced. I was hoping it would be rated for 24+ MPG on the hwy. I believe Ford realized late in the game that they were not going to be able to get the mileage up without really killing power so they opted for slightly better mileage with much more power.

I agree. You would have to be looking at 30 mpg for me to be a buyer. Especially since I have seen 26 mpg in my dads Eco Boost at 60 mph and its averaged 18 mpg for its now 11,000 miles.

I do close in my 6 year old F-350. Its averaged about 17 mpg tank to tank since new and with a few mods I can get nearly 24 mpg on the highway.

The extra cost just may not be worth it much like a diesel car versus say a Civic or then again the hybrids versus something like the Cruize.

If GM does make it first to market it will either save them or brake them on truck sales. While the numbers have been good for the last 2 years or so they are selling them at a wash to gain market share and loyalty back. There has been nothing exciting about them to me for 15 years so this may get them back in the hunt.

Chris