Buying a new Truck

[CHDinCT]

Here's some pricing for you. On April 2nd while getting some work done on my wife's car at the local Ford dealer I test drove and priced an new F150 FX4 Super Crew (small back seat) with the 3.5 Eco Boost and 6.5' bed. Had a few other options - black interior package, sunroof, and the bed side slide out steps. Anyway, sticker was $41,785. They quoted me a sale price of $37,842, then Ford cash/rebates of $4,250 (that included an extra $500 or $1K for using Ford financing, can't recall exact number). So, total discount was $8,183. I'm reading these numbers off of the quote sheet right in front of me so it's not vague memories.

Only caveat is that I was also looking at trading my '10 F150 XLT so they may have played with the trade value some - don't know as I really wasn't that serious and mostly wanted to test drive the Eco Boost. But, if anything they would have inflated the trade-in value and lowered the discounts I would think. Hope any of that helps.

 

[Pixguy]

Here's some pricing for you. On April 2nd while getting some work done on my wife's car at the local Ford dealer I test drove and priced an new F150 FX4 Super Crew (small back seat) with the 3.5 Eco Boost and 6.5' bed. Had a few other options - black interior package, sunroof, and the bed side slide out steps. Anyway, sticker was $41,785. They quoted me a sale price of $37,842, then Ford cash/rebates of $4,250 (that included an extra $500 or $1K for using Ford financing, can't recall exact number). So, total discount was $8,183. I'm reading these numbers off of the quote sheet right in front of me so it's not vague memories.

Only caveat is that I was also looking at trading my '10 F150 XLT so they may have played with the trade value some - don't know as I really wasn't that serious and mostly wanted to test drive the Eco Boost. But, if anything they would have inflated the trade-in value and lowered the discounts I would think. Hope any of that helps.

So what was your impression of the EB??

 

[jejeosborne]

I know how to play the game.

First thing I tell the salesmen when working a deal is that I deal in "drive out price only"....not Price+Fees. They they start blabbering about % this and inventory taxes that....I tell 'em however they need to work it. Drive out price only. I have a number I want for my trade. I don't care about the payments....only what the numbers add up to.

I want to see where my dollars are spent so this option doesn't work well for me. You are removing yourself from a potential savings by doing this. Dealer A may have a lower "out the door" price but have but a higher vehicle price meaning all the fees are lower. Knowing this makes negotiation between dealer A and dealer B easier. You can tell dealer A that Dealer B has a lower vehicle price or you can tell dealer B that dealer A has lower fees. I guess we play a different game.

 

[CurlyDave]

My experience has been that the best way to negotiate a new car/truck/whatever is to first decide where you are going to buy. I spent years dealing with poor service, where it seemed like the service manager felt that every dime he spent on warranty issues was coming out of his own pocket. Almost in desperation I tried a different dealer, and was amazed to discover that they went far out of their way to finds ways to cover problems under the warranty rather than finding ways not to cover them.

It also did not hurt at all that the better service dealer was very close to my work. Other things being equal buy from a dealer near your work rather than near your home. This works out a lot better for service.

I bought two or 3 cars and a truck from these guys, and they way I worked it was that I shopped all the dealers in the area until I got the best quote I could on the rig I wanted, and then I would go to the dealer I had already chosen, show them the quote and ask them to meet it.

Usually I had to pay $100-200 more than the best quote, but I always made that up on the value of the service work they did and the convenience of being close to my work.

Think long and hard about whether a few hundred is worth having a convenient dealer, or an honest dealer. OTOH, if you ever get the run around on financial and pricing questions, walk out and let the general manager know why you are walking out.

No matter what advice you get and what you end up doing, don't ever believe that a negotiating strategy will save you significant money. The salesman sells dozens of cars a month, hundreds per year. How often do you buy a new rig? It is like an amateur trying to play NFL football. You are never going to beat these guys at their own game. The very best you can do is to find a dealer with an honest service department and give him your business.

 

[TheGoose]

I guess I don't understand this POV.

If their total vehicle cost is higher, but the fees are lower, what's the difference?

Sales tax and licensing fees are pretty well set here. It's not like the dealer can play with these figures anyways. I ask for the "out the door" price because I find most will give you a $xx,xxx + fees type of quote, and the fees can add up fast.

What I'm referring to on fees are things like dealer prep, delivery fee, etc. Tax, title, and license are set already.

I want to see where my dollars are spent so this option doesn't work well for me. You are removing yourself from a potential savings by doing this. Dealer A may have a lower "out the door" price but have but a higher vehicle price meaning all the fees are lower. Knowing this makes negotiation between dealer A and dealer B easier. You can tell dealer A that Dealer B has a lower vehicle price or you can tell dealer B that dealer A has lower fees. I guess we play a different game.

 

[TheGoose]

Thank you very much for that quote. That's exactly what this thread was about.

Here's some pricing for you. On April 2nd while getting some work done on my wife's car at the local Ford dealer I test drove and priced an new F150 FX4 Super Crew (small back seat) with the 3.5 Eco Boost and 6.5' bed. Had a few other options - black interior package, sunroof, and the bed side slide out steps. Anyway, sticker was $41,785. They quoted me a sale price of $37,842, then Ford cash/rebates of $4,250 (that included an extra $500 or $1K for using Ford financing, can't recall exact number). So, total discount was $8,183. I'm reading these numbers off of the quote sheet right in front of me so it's not vague memories.

Only caveat is that I was also looking at trading my '10 F150 XLT so they may have played with the trade value some - don't know as I really wasn't that serious and mostly wanted to test drive the Eco Boost. But, if anything they would have inflated the trade-in value and lowered the discounts I would think. Hope any of that helps.

 

[TheGoose]

5-speed
1st = 3.00:1
5th = .67:1

6 Speed
1st = 3.00:1
6th = .67:1

This is exactly what I'm referring to on the 5&6 speeds. I'm too lazy to look it up but I'm willing to bet that the first and final ratio's for a 4-speed aren't much different.

8 speed
1st = 4.7:1
8th = .67:1

Looks like I was only partially right. First gear is really low, 8th has the exact same final drive as 5&6 speeds, and probably not much different than the older 4 speeds.

I am the first in line for the free donuts or do I get a dollar? Better check before you bet. My six speed ford is a huge improvement over my 5 speed dodge. Extra gears is great if you tow often. This 8 speed will be awesome if it turns out to be solid and reliable.

The 45RFE later became the 5-speed 545RFE.

Gear Ratios:
1st 3.00:1
2nd 1.67:1
2nd Prime 1.50:1
3rd 1.00:1
4th 0.75:1
Reverse 3.00:1
545RFE only:
5th 0.67:1

65RFE 6-speed

1st 3.00:1
2nd 1.67:1
3rd 1.50:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.75:1
6th 0.67:1
Reverse 3.00:1

The new 8HP45 and 8HP70 transmissions have twice as many gears, and the bandwidth is impressive: 4.71:1, 3.14:1, 2.10:1, 1.67:1, 1.29:1, 1.00:1 0.84:1 and 0.67:1. Reverse is 3.30:1

Yeah, I get you on the gearing. But I just wonder how much "better" all these extra gears are cruising on the highway in top gear.

Guess I'll be finding out soon. I'll probably be on here preaching how more gears are better in 6 months.

The first three gears are much lower and 4-8 are about the same. The top gear is the same BUT because of the different lower gears they can run a taller rear end axle ratio so while that top gear is the same, it's overall ratio to the tires is much different. Like running a 3.00 rear end vs a 3.55 or 3.73.
For example:
The current RAM 6 speed 1st-6th (66RFE)
1st 3.231:1
2nd 1.837:1
3rd 1.410:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.816:1
6th 0.625:1
The new RAM 8 speed:
1st 4.71:1
2nd 3.14:1
3rd 2.10:1
4th 1.67:1
5th 1.29:1
6th 1.00:1
7th 0.84:1
8th 0.61:1
With a 3.06 rear end, a Dodge Charger HEMI 8 speed is at just 1400 rpms at 75 mph.

Edit, looks like jejeosbourne beat me too it but didn't show the current RAM's 6 speed (66RFE).

 

[TheGoose]

Stop the presses:

Rumors swirling about 1/2 Ton diesels again. Might just have to hold off to see how this develops.


Rumor Mill: The Diesels Are Coming - Diesel Power Magazine

 

[Dmace]

Stop the presses:
Rumors swirling about 1/2 Ton diesels again. Might just have to hold off to see how this develops.
Rumor Mill: The Diesels Are Coming - Diesel Power Magazine

It would certainly be nice but with the high diesel prices and rediculous EPA standards, will it be worth it? The RAM CEO said they have the ability and design to put a small V8 Cummins diesel in the RAM 1500 but doesn't believe there's a market for them.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...am-pickup-feasible-but-is-there-a-demand.html

 

[CHDinCT]

So what was your impression of the EB??

The first thing I noticed is that it idles rougher than my 5.4 V8 and the salesperson agreed that was common to the EB, though certainly no show stopper. Believe it or not, I had never driven a turbo'd engine before so for better or worse I could not tell when the turbo's kicked in. It did step out nicely and I could feel the extra power when accelerating but not a whole lot more than my 5.4, but it was a short 10 mile test drive so maybe I just needed more time with it to form a firmer opinion.

It was going to cost me $11K out the door to trade my 2 year old XLT Super Crew with 13K miles for the FX4. Other than the EB, I didn't like the FX4 $11K more than my paid off XLT, so no sale. If I were going to spend $11K on a vehicle, I'd probably put that toward a cheap 40+mpg grocery getter and leave the truck home when not needed.