need help finding a HYD tap adapter for a Satoh Beaver

[Freakingstang]

I'm looking for this adapter. I've called a couple tractor salvage yards and bought what was supposed to be this... I've yet to find any leads on anything used and don't really want to shell out 500 bucks for a "new" one.. Any help? leads?

 

[Freakingstang]

This is the one I was sent. They assured me numerous times that it would work but the bolt hole pattern is about twice the diameter. Any idea what tractor this one fits?

 

[284 International]

Is it perhaps from an S373? The adapter doesn't look impossible to make, if it came to that.

 

[Freakingstang]

is this correct thinking about how the new setup should be ran? or do I need the return from the aux tank to go straight to the case?

 

[284 International]

I think that you will be better to not run the auxiliary tank. On the Yanmar versions I have seen, the valve is in series with the three point valve, and the three point gets its pressure from the downstream of the loader valve. In this case, that would mean your tank is pressurized and closed to the atmosphere. If not, you will have no power at the three point.

Here are a couple diagrams of how a parts supplier for Yanmars solves these issues:

Yanmar Tractor Parts: HYDRAULIC ADAPTER - ADD A LOADER / LOG SPLITTER


Remote hydraulic install on a Yanmar


While these are for a Yanmar, they are all the same idea, and the adapter may even fit onto your pump. The way the second diagram is plumbed has caused some discussion about whether the valve is designed to be pressurized on the return side or not, but one of my tractors came that way from Yanmar, and another had an aftermarket loader added in that style. None have been any trouble. While that is anecdotal, many others have the same setup and have no major issues.

 

[techwrtr2]

I'm looking for this adapter. I've called a couple tractor salvage yards and bought what was supposed to be this... I've yet to find any leads on anything used and don't really want to shell out 500 bucks for a "new" one.. Any help? leads?

That's where ours connects in and we do not utilize an auxiliary tank. No, you cannot have my adapter thingy. It supplies our loader, grapple and even the log splitter.

 

[Freakingstang]

That's where ours connects in and we do not utilize an auxiliary tank. No, you cannot have my adapter thingy. It supplies our loader, grapple and even the log splitter.

so you mean to tell me you have no aux tank?

I thought the blackhawk uprights were aux tanks....the system sure doesn't hold that much fluid... 2-1/2 gallons...

 

[284 International]

I don't know about the Blackhawk loaders, but the couple OEM loaders I've looked at from Kubota, Yanmar, and Bolens came one of two ways. Either they used the hydraulics from a divider block at the three point valve, as you're trying to do (And tapping into the hard line upstream of the lift valve accomplishes the same thing) without any additional tank, or there is a standalone pump, driven off the crankshaft or via a belt, with a reservoir in one of the uprights.

This seems to break all of the guidelines for having the reservoir size equal to or larger than the pump's output in GPM, but every one of the vintage Japanese tractors I have or have looked at use one of those two setups. I've never seen an auxiliary tank in series with the transmission reservoir.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Taking hydraulic fluid from the gear case isn't that terrible, since when all of your rams are fully extended there should only be a net difference of about 1/2 gallon +/- compared to when they are retracted in the gear case reservoir. You can calculate the exact difference by adding up all the cylinder rod diameters and extended lengths and see what volumes they add up to. This will be the volume you'll be short when the cylinders are fully extended. I believe most gear cases take around 3 gallons, so if you are picky about that stuff, you could split the difference and put in an extra quart of gear case fluid so you'll be high a quart when retracted, and short a quart when fully extended. The good news about running at the stock fluid level is that most of the time you probably won't be driving the tractor all over the place with the cylinders fully extended so you shouldn't find yourself in a low condition in the gear case. However, I would make sure that the gear case is at the correct level frequently to avoid running into a low condition.

Attached are pictures of the adapter from an S373D for reference. The triangular piece on the left is the piece that would normally only be on the 3-pt hydraulic case.

 

[modifyit]

I'm looking for this adapter. I've called a couple tractor salvage yards and bought what was supposed to be this... I've yet to find any leads on anything used and don't really want to shell out 500 bucks for a "new" one.. Any help? leads?

I'm still lurking here from time to time, and now I have a new problem. Working on a FEL build for my Beaver, I was eyeballing that particular hydraulic port as just an attachment point to get hydraulic pressure to the three point system from the pump. What does the double O ring setup accomplish? Without having disassembled the connection, I had started making an adapter to bolt on there; only I had envisioned one O ring so cut a large O ring groove into the face of my adapter. Anyway, I haven't completed all the machining so if the part goes into the scrap bin it isn't too large a loss. So, can you explain what the double ports accomplish other than just transferring pressure from pump to three point system?
How much oil will leak from this connection when I remove the three bolts holding the assembly together? At some point, I suppose I'll have to remove those bolts and try to get dimensions for an adapter since what I have now probably won't work.

 

[284 International]

I think one hole is "out" pressure to feed the auxiliary valve (whether for a loader or remotes etc) and the other is the "in" hole to return high pressure fluid to the three point lift.

 

[techwrtr2]

Ours does not use an auxiliary tank. Only extra hydraulic tank on the tractor is on the backhoe which has its own separate system.

 

[Freakingstang]

I'm still lurking here from time to time, and now I have a new problem. Working on a FEL build for my Beaver, I was eyeballing that particular hydraulic port as just an attachment point to get hydraulic pressure to the three point system from the pump. What does the double O ring setup accomplish? Without having disassembled the connection, I had started making an adapter to bolt on there; only I had envisioned one O ring so cut a large O ring groove into the face of my adapter. Anyway, I haven't completed all the machining so if the part goes into the scrap bin it isn't too large a loss. So, can you explain what the double ports accomplish other than just transferring pressure from pump to three point system?
How much oil will leak from this connection when I remove the three bolts holding the assembly together? At some point, I suppose I'll have to remove those bolts and try to get dimensions for an adapter since what I have now probably won't work.

There won't be much fluid when you take the three bolt cap off... the cap has a bubbe in it where the two ports meet. My only thinking here is that is was a factory connection point..... Now, if you could find another supply line, that would be the easiest to fab up. I dug out some thick scrap today and took measurements...stay tuned


I wouldn't scrap your design just yet... maybe someone more versed in hydraulics can answer. My thinking that you single port tap might work as long as your valve doesn't have a power beyond port... I could be totally off base with this comment so take it for what it is...free internet thoughts...

 

[Freakingstang]

Ours does not use an auxiliary tank. Only extra hydraulic tank on the tractor is on the backhoe which has its own separate system.

Thank you for the clarification...all along I thought they had them built into the uprights.. I guess I read/researched way too much untilmy head spun... lol

 

[284 International]

I thought they had them built into the uprights.

Many loader frames DO have a reservoir in one of the uprights, but they have their own independent pump.

 

[modifyit]

There won't be much fluid when you take the three bolt cap off... the cap has a bubbe in it where the two ports meet. My only thinking here is that is was a factory connection point..... Now, if you could find another supply line, that would be the easiest to fab up. I dug out some thick scrap today and took measurements...stay tuned


I wouldn't scrap your design just yet... maybe someone more versed in hydraulics can answer. My thinking that you single port tap might work as long as your valve doesn't have a power beyond port... I could be totally off base with this comment so take it for what it is...free internet thoughts...

Looking at the diagram, does the valve for the three point divert full pressure through the first port to the lift cylinder with the lever in the up position? Then at the neutral position, it could trap the fluid holding the 3 point in the up position, while dumping pressure through the second port to the reservoir and thus prevent deadheading the pump. In the down position, the pump pressure could continue being diverted to the reservoir, while allowing the trapped fluid in the lift cylinder to also drain to the reservoir.

If that is close to the theory, my idea of simply using an adapter to get hydraulic pressure to the loader with a single port probably can't work. It seems that there would be 0 pressure at my adapter in all but the lift position for the 3 point. Is there a flow diagram for the Beaver hydraulics available?

 

[Freakingstang]

Looking at the diagram, does the valve for the three point divert full pressure through the first port to the lift cylinder with the lever in the up position? Then at the neutral position, it could trap the fluid holding the 3 point in the up position, while dumping pressure through the second port to the reservoir and thus prevent deadheading the pump. In the down position, the pump pressure could continue being diverted to the reservoir, while allowing the trapped fluid in the lift cylinder to also drain to the reservoir.

If that is close to the theory, my idea of simply using an adapter to get hydraulic pressure to the loader with a single port probably can't work. It seems that there would be 0 pressure at my adapter in all but the lift position for the 3 point. Is there a flow diagram for the Beaver hydraulics available?

I'll double check my repair manual, but I don't remember seeing one...

 

[284 International]

Here are a couple excerpts from the Yanmar manual for a YM240. The principles will be the same. I understand this manual is in the public domain, though I do not know for certain.

 

[modifyit]

Here are a couple excerpts from the Yanmar manual for a YM240. The principles will be the same. I understand this manual is in the public domain, though I do not know for certain.


From those diagrams, it would seem the Beaver is not set up the same way. It appears the pressure will go to low at any but the lift position. Maybe that's what power beyond means on control valves, there is a position which allows full pressure to another valve somewhere on the tractor. I don't think my Beaver has any kind of isolation valve to accomplish that. With a Beaver flow diagram, it would probably be obvious how to make that happen. Perhaps that little part that F......stang is looking for somehow has the option built in.

In doing a bunch of Google searches I found some info on this site which indicates that by cutting into the line from the pump and installing a loader valve with power beyond in series with the pump and the three point lift system, that will solve the pressure problem. However I am still waiting to find out how that bolt on adapter should work.

 

[284 International]

Maybe that's what power beyond means on control valves, there is a position which allows full pressure to another valve somewhere on the tractor.

Yes, that is correct.

The last picture shows how to use the three point control to actuate a single acting cylinder. It's not particularly applicable to your situation. The block shunts flow from the junction to the loader valve. The loader valve return goesmback to the block, where it is ported to the three point control.

Knowledgeable people have observed this means the return side of the loader valve is subjected to full hydraulic system pressure, which they are generally not designed to withstand. Power beyond would have a return line to the transmission, and the power beyond hose would return to the block, and feed the three point that way.