Ponds and insurance

[aczlan]

Would a dry hydrant be worth it if you have a regular hydrant across the road? My inlaws have a regular hydrant across the road from the, but have a pond about 1/3 of the way back on their property.
As it sits, you can get right next to the pond with a 4x4 truck (grassy laneway that is slightly muddy in the spring) and the pond is ~400' from the gravel laneway which would easily support a full size fire truck (one way though, back in or back out)

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[pacerron]

I had not heard of the this "dry hydrant" concept. I shall look into it.
Cliff

Your rate is more likely to be adjusted by the type of primary heat you have.
A lot of farm folks that heat only with a wood stove or wood furnace get
high rates. Some around here have even had their insurance dropped unless
they change to another type of primary heat.

 

[charliepff]

If you have a regular hydrant across the road it may not be worth it. The best thing would be to contact the local firehouse and ask them if that hydrant system is adequate or they need a back up water supply in that area. We have two town here that have hydrants, but, they are not a strong enough sorce to support fire department operations.

The reason we just had ISO come in and re evaluate the county is due to the developments being built in rural areas. They were having thier homeowners insurance dropped due to not having a water supply nearby and an inadequate firehouse or equipment. Like I said, there are many things that affect this rating and your insurance. We are really trying to push home sprinklers, hardy board siding, a cistern or dry hydrant per a development, and the firewise program. Pacceron would probably have an idea how much if these items will affect your insurance. Like I said, this should not be the motivation to due this, as saftey should be your number one reason. A close water supply makes an extreme affect on a fire.

 

[Storm56]

Not sure where you sell insurance at but I seen ISO evaluations or audits in PA and VA. We took our department from a ISO of 6 down to a 4 in eastern PA. Their are many factors considered into this. Not just distance to the firehouse. Yes, distance to water and the water available affects it. Everything from water supply, staffing, equipment, and training. All of this affects the rating. I encourage you to look into this. I think it will surprise you what you will find. I spent an hour looking into this and only skimmed what all affects the rating. We were also evaluated on the mutual aid companies we used for a house fire assignment. A pond and a dry hydrant is beneficial to you and your neighbors. Especially if you have the pond already. The dry hydrant can be paid for through a grant from DNR.



I sold insurance in NE PA. We may very well be talking apples and oranges here. An insurer is MUCH more interested in the ISO rating of the PROPERTY we are insuring than the ISO rating of the RESPONDING fire dept.

It comes down to a couple of basics. First is if the proposed insured is within 1000 feet of a fire hydrant, and I do NOT mean one in a pond, I mean a CITY PUBLIC WATER fire hydrant. The second basic piece of information we need is, if there is NOT a city hydrant within 1000 feet, is the responding fire dept within 5 miles.

As a rule in town, area's covered by city fire hydrants within 1000 feet, the ISO ratings are 4-6. For out of town but within 5 miles of a responding fire dept the rating is a 7-9, beyond 5 miles is a 10.

So we have 3 basic classes to deal with. In order to jump classes, from say a 9 to a 6, that would involve running city water lines and installing hydrants to within 1000 feet of all homes in that area.

As a rule there is very little difference in insurance rates among a class, for example a 4 or 6, or a 7 or 9.

So again, you may have changed the ISO rating of your fire dept, but that does not mean you changed the ratings for all areas covered by the dept to have significantly effected the insurance rate, unless you jump those classes I mentioned.

Hope this clears up some things.

 

[charliepff]

That is interesting. I would like to see if it varies by states. We were asked where the nearest water source and fire department was to our house when we bought it. They do the same thing where I work too. Also, our woodstove actually did not increase our insurance.

As far as the ISO for our department. Both places jumped multiple ratings which we where told by both the ISO representative and an insurance person that this affected the peoples homeowners insurace in the respective area we covered. This was both in PA and VA. So far the houses that have lost their homeowners insurance have been able to regain their coverage.

I am really interested in this and the differences between the states. We were harrassed by homeowners at the fire stations because the insurance companies told them that lack of water and fire protection was the result of their dropped insurance. We even had people threaten lawsuits and such. My thoughts are, do not build a 5000 sq. ft. home in the middle of nowhere with no hydrants and and no close fire department, but, that is personal opinion. I have only dealt with this from the fire department side with an ISO representative. So I am glad you have told us what you all look for as insurance reps.

I do have a question for you with ponds. Does depth raise your insurance at all as far as when you install a pond on your property? Someone a while back told me that a pond could not be deeper then a certain depth.

 

[Storm56]

I do have a question for you with ponds. Does depth raise your insurance at all as far as when you install a pond on your property? Someone a while back told me that a pond could not be deeper then a certain depth.

No, depth of a pond, stream, etc had no effect on ratings on any insurer I ever wrote with. No one ever required a fence around ponds either. However swimming pools were another matter. If it was 3 feet or over, either you had to have steps that folded up and locked or a fence with a locking gate.

Rates for swimming pools were also no higher, but because of the increased liabilty exposure to the insured, it was customary to recommend a higher limit of liability. This is often where people got the idea that pools had a higher rate.

 

[charliepff]

Thank you for awnsering that. The question about the pools was next. Do you all do home inspections of wood stoves and things of that nature to adjust your rates or coverage to people?

 

[jonyyuma]

Not all HYDRANTs, Here,can be pumped by a fire truck...The older pipes won't allow it...They must free flow...Developers sometimes used undersized pipe to supply water to subdivisions. Our Iso rating depended on our ability to supply water by ferrying it by truck, tanker and pumper to the scene for a definite perioud of time at a set flowrate.Some lines provided to the smaller "Puppy" plugs are only two inchers??. They were installed to flush and clean the lines, not provide water for a fire truck..The good Hydrant lines here at attached to 8 inch lines..We do have Mutual agreements to pool equipment and manpower to areas close enough..Most the county fire protection is Volunteer..

 

[Storm56]

Thank you for awnsering that. The question about the pools was next. Do you all do home inspections of wood stoves and things of that nature to adjust your rates or coverage to people?

Yes we always inspected new wood stove installations and proposed insured properties that had one. In order for us to cover them they needed to be installed according to NFPA code. If they were not correctly installed we could not insure the property. With the insurers that I used it was either approved or not. If the insured would not bring the installation into compliance, we could not insure them. There was not any adjusting of rates, they either qualified or they did not.