Axle location question

[joshuabardwell]

I am confused. What are your hitch limits? Please post and put my mind at ease.

Well, I reached out to the dealer, and asked whether I should believe the manual (the online one, not the one in my glovebox, which appears to be incomplete), which says 3500 lbs GTW / 350 lbs TW, or the online towing guide, which says 5000 lbs GTW / 500 lbs TW. The dealer said go with whatever the manual says. Sorry to say, but it looks like my 13,000 lb tow capacity truck and its 12,000 lb GTW hitch are going to be no better than a little SUV until I get a weight-distributing hitch. How about that?

 

[jejeosborne]

Well, I reached out to the dealer, and asked whether I should believe the manual (the online one, not the one in my glovebox, which appears to be incomplete), which says 3500 lbs GTW / 350 lbs TW, or the online towing guide, which says 5000 lbs GTW / 500 lbs TW. The dealer said go with whatever the manual says. Sorry to say, but it looks like my 13,000 lb tow capacity truck and its 12,000 lb GTW hitch are going to be no better than a little SUV until I get a weight-distributing hitch. How about that?

I was also surprised to see that low of a number. People in that link I keep referring to, changed out their hitch to "solve" their problem. I still feel the WD setup is safer because it spreads the load across the truck frame and adds weight to the front axle of the truck aiding in stopping. You should be able to find a used WD hitch for around $150.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I was also surprised to see that low of a number. People in that link I keep referring to, changed out their hitch to "solve" their problem. I still feel the WD setup is safer because it spreads the load across the truck frame and adds weight to the front axle of the truck aiding in stopping. You should be able to find a used WD hitch for around $150.

I tend to agree with you. Ultimately, it's the holes in the frame that the bolts go through that is what holds the hitch on. Maybe the higher-rated hitches have more holes and more bolts? I dunno.

Any suggestions on where to look for the used WD hitch? New, they run around $400, so that's a hefty discount. Craigslist is an obvious choice... Should I be concerned about damage or abuse? Anything non-obvious to look for?

I have to say, last night I was pretty mad at the hitch manufacturers for not making it clearer that the weight ratings of the hitches assumed a WD setup. I went over to etrailers.com and looked, and sure enough, none of the Class IV or V hitches I looked at bothered to mention their non-WD capacity (although if you read down through the specs, they did mention that a WD hitch was required). As I did more research, I realized that class III and lower hitches did list both specifications, and I wondered whether the issue is that it's just assumed, if you're using a Class IV or V hitch, that you'll be using a WD setup, because there's not much point in going that big without one.

 

[jejeosborne]

I tend to agree with you. Ultimately, it's the holes in the frame that the bolts go through that is what holds the hitch on. Maybe the higher-rated hitches have more holes and more bolts? I dunno.

Any suggestions on where to look for the used WD hitch? New, they run around $400, so that's a hefty discount. Craigslist is an obvious choice... Should I be concerned about damage or abuse? Anything non-obvious to look for?

I have to say, last night I was pretty mad at the hitch manufacturers for not making it clearer that the weight ratings of the hitches assumed a WD setup. I went over to etrailers.com and looked, and sure enough, none of the Class IV or V hitches I looked at bothered to mention their non-WD capacity (although if you read down through the specs, they did mention that a WD hitch was required). As I did more research, I realized that class III and lower hitches did list both specifications, and I wondered whether the issue is that it's just assumed, if you're using a Class IV or V hitch, that you'll be using a WD setup, because there's not much point in going that big without one.

Yeah craigslist would be the preference. My way of searching craigslist is SearchTempest - All of craigslist. One Search.
It searches a radius from you zip code. Just check for bent bars, unusual wear on the pivot points. Thats about it. If sway is ever an issue, get one with built in sway control like the equalizer brand. Those are awesome but with a price.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well, I reached out to the dealer, and asked whether I should believe the manual (the online one, not the one in my glovebox, which appears to be incomplete), which says 3500 lbs GTW / 350 lbs TW, or the online towing guide, which says 5000 lbs GTW / 500 lbs TW. The dealer said go with whatever the manual says. Sorry to say, but it looks like my 13,000 lb tow capacity truck and its 12,000 lb GTW hitch are going to be no better than a little SUV until I get a weight-distributing hitch. How about that?

This was the case for many years but Ford and GM have corrected this. I am really surprised Dodge has not????

My 06 F-350's hitch is rated for 12,000# towing and 15,000# with WD hitch. Its a 2.5" unit. The GM trucks started stepping up to the plate in 08 with better hitches also.

I was in the same place as you in 2004 when I bought a brand new F-250 Diesel. It was rated at 6,000# towing and 12,000# or maybe 10,000# WD. Well, I broke it pulling about 14,000# without a WD setup. Live and learn. I replaced it with a Reese Titan 2.5" unit rated at 12,000# towing and 16,000# WD

There are better hitches out there.

Chris

 

[tommu56]

Good rule of thumb and starting point is to put the axle at 60% the way ack from the front of the bed. This way you end up with the bed of the trailer with a 60/40 divide.

Chris

When I built my 1st trailer I measured prebuilt ones and the axles were in the same range that Chris said.

Mine is set at 57% of the bed (that means no tongue) and they tow great
I've made 4 since then and still stick to the same 57%

tom

 

[joshuabardwell]

This was the case for many years but Ford and GM have corrected this. I am really surprised Dodge has not????

My truck is an '05, so maybe they have improved things since then. I'm not motivated enough to check, but the owner's manuals can be downloaded from Dodge if you're so inclined.

There are better hitches out there.

Seems to me like the answer is to just pony up for a WD hitch and be done with.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Well, here's a treat for you.

Trailer Hitch for 2012 Ford F-250 and F-350 Super Duty 1500 lbs TW 2 Inch Hitch | etrailer.com

Class V hitch rated for 15,000 lbs GTW / 1,500 lbs TW without weight distribution!!! Add a WD system and you get a whole extra 1,000 lbs GTW. HOLY COW! It's even a 2" receiver. That's something.

Having done some more searching, it appears that there is no shortage of Class V hitches that can take up to 12,000, 15,000 and even 18,000# GTW without a WD system. And the prices for them are around $250-300, which is less than a WD system would cost. But surely it's not that simple. Surely the enhanced vehicle balance and etc... of the WD system makes up its value, right? Having never towed with a WD system, I can't say for sure. What do y'all think?

 

[Renze]

A 20.5 x 8.00-10" tire load range E has a max rating of 1650 lbs. 4 of them should give you plenty of load capacity, stability, peace of mind and a low deck height. A neighbor has these on a 4 x 8 trailer for hauling roofing bundles. That's what is on that hay trailer. (Its 8 x 16')

I am a professional engineer, worked for the defendents against all kinds of vehicle misuse, and sweep my outside floors with a leaf blower. Inside, I have 2 Dysans.I have analyzed trailer towing with my own and other compuer simulations, measured all kinds of tires on an MTS Flat-Trac tester, and performed handling tests on the road and on laboratory equipment at a Proving Grounds. And some U.S. patents on these methods, BTW. I bale hay with a 15 year old tractor using a mower and baler that's almost as old as I am. I restore old water pumping metal windmills for fun and preservation. Many of them having come from Kendallville, Indiana. For fun, I shoot a Barrett M99 50 BMG. If you have an opinion based on facts bring it on. If you read it in Reader's Digest (a Carolyn Davis recipe, maybe?) keep it to yourself and then do some homework.

Sort of jives with JDGreen227's recent post, eh? Since I know WHY a positive tongue load is usually recommended, I can compensate for that need in other ways. What's in your wallet?

Now tell me: You try to make us believe that you did testings for liability lawsuits, but here you tell average Joe that its OK to break number one rule in every vehicle manual (positive tongue load) if you "compensate in other ways" ????????
You take a grand risk of getting a lawsuit on YOURSELF, if somebody reads it, gets an accident and then says "but this zzvyb6 guy on TBN said i'd be ok !!!!"

And by the way, how can the hay trailer behind the Corvette NOT have tongue weight while the axles are at least 8 inches (half a bale width) from the center of the bed ?? And then the weight of the towbar and coupler add to it... YES the manufacturer of your trailer perfectly followed the industry rule of thumb of 10% tongue weight...


With your bragging about being a vehicle dynamics engineer you achieved the opposed, because it really exposed a lack of general knowledge....

 

[jejeosborne]

Now tell me: You try to make us believe that you did testings for liability lawsuits, but here you tell average Joe that its OK to break number one rule in every vehicle manual (positive tongue load) if you "compensate in other ways" ????????
You take a grand risk of getting a lawsuit on YOURSELF, if somebody reads it, gets an accident and then says "but this zzvyb6 guy on TBN said i'd be ok !!!!"

And by the way, how can the hay trailer behind the Corvette NOT have tongue weight while the axles are at least 8 inches (half a bale width) from the center of the bed ?? And then the weight of the towbar and coupler add to it... YES the manufacturer of your trailer perfectly followed the industry rule of thumb of 10% tongue weight...

With your bragging about being a vehicle dynamics engineer you achieved the opposed, because it really exposed a lack of general knowledge....

I asked earlier for his vast knowledge and scared him off. Obviously he is still testing his answers in the lab.