1/2 ton diesel anyone? looks like it might be a reality before long...

[WilliamBos]

See, this would be a winner to me and I am the last guy in the world to own a GM anything. Maybe bump the HP to 350 but 310 would do. The torque is where its at.

Just does not make any sense if they have ti ready to go for 2 years and have spent all that money on R&D that they would not bring it to market?:confused2: I know GM had its issues with money but to shelve it after all the time and money was spent seems crazy to me. They need to do something quick with it or it will be a fossil quick and not be able to meet the next round of emmisons coming up in 3 years.

Chris

I agree Chris. I have never bought a new truck before, or a new vehicle for that matter. But the 4.5L would get me to sign on the dotted line for a new one.

 

[clemsonfor]

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If it requires 300HP to overcome air drag, rolling friction and raise the gross weight of the rig at 55 mph. Then that is the amount Of energy required no matter if the engine can make 300 or 500 max HP. There just isn't the spread or difference a small vs a large motor uses in fuel that there used to be. Also Looking at the Duramax since it's introduction. There has been an increase in HP with little to no change in displacemen. The extra power is just more lbs of air per minute via higher manifold pressure. With the corrisponding increase in fuel delivery. This is a topic where it's too easy to compare apples to oranges.

Im no engineer and am not looking to start an argument, but it SHOULD NOT take 300+ HP to overcome roling resistance and air and friction etc? If this was the case it would be like the guy below your post posting about big trucks. Or in the case of my olp pickup, i think it had 175 HP when it was new from the factory. How can it actually drive itself and let alone pull a 5000lb load if it takes 300hp to move itself?

 

[jeffsw6]

See, this would be a winner to me and I am the last guy in the world to own a GM anything. Maybe bump the HP to 350 but 310 would do. The torque is where its at.

Just does not make any sense if they have ti ready to go for 2 years and have spent all that money on R&D that they would not bring it to market?:confused2:

They are probably pretty risk-adverse. The economy is either slowly improving or it is worse than it's been in our lifetimes, depending on which TV news channel you read.

Either way, even the most optimistic people must admit that it is not a strong recovery that could keep on adding jobs if, say, gas went up to $5.00/gallon. I'm sure we can all agree that gas could easily jump to that price if there was a major hurricane, a terror strike, a Venezuelan coup, or probably fifty other things that bankers sit around and spreadsheet about.

It can easily seem like a small diesel in 1/2 tons would give GM a huge competitive advantage over the other mfrs. Maybe it would. A strong counter-argument is that Ford's EcoBoost F150 ought to be really sticking it to GM and Dodge in the half-ton segment, but is it? I haven't personally driven one, but everyone I know who has is impressed, and on paper it looks pretty **** great. Yet the other companies don't seem to be filing bankruptcy (again) over it.

Won't the guy who wants a 4.5L Duramax in a 1500HD just buy a 6.6L Duramax in a 2500HD anyway? The 4.5L would still be a ~$7000 option, based on what I have read, so it's not like it's a cheap option. The guy buying that can probably afford to step up to 2500.

It's just my $0.02 but I can understand why GM would have to consider very carefully whether or not the potential gains outweigh the risk of spending a huge amount of money setting up manufacturing for the 4.5L. It would really be competing with their own 6.0 and 6.2 gassers more than with Ford and Dodge products if you ask me.

 

[scrappy isb67]

Won't the guy who wants a 4.5L Duramax in a 1500HD just buy a 6.6L Duramax in a 2500HD anyway? The 4.5L would still be a ~$7000 option, based on what I have read, so it's not like it's a cheap option. The guy buying that can probably afford to step up to 2500.

Just for curiosity I specced out a 1/2 ton and a 1 ton Dodge.
the fully loaded 1/2 ton with the Hemi priced @ $48,360
and the fully loaded 1 ton dually came up with $60,240.
add $5-7K to the 1/2 ton and you could get a 3/4 ton with the diesel and get more payload, tow capacity and a bigger bed!
IMHO it is that is why the 1/2T diesel will never happen unless the mileage is high enough to offset the added premiums.
too bad though, I would love to get one!

 

[Mikeeemo]

Just for curiosity I specced out a 1/2 ton and a 1 ton Dodge.
the fully loaded 1/2 ton with the Hemi priced @ $48,360
and the fully loaded 1 ton dually came up with $60,240.
add $5-7K to the 1/2 ton and you could get a 3/4 ton with the diesel and get more payload, tow capacity and a bigger bed!
IMHO it is that is why the 1/2T diesel will never happen unless the mileage is high enough to offset the added premiums.
too bad though, I would love to get one!

You hit that on the head for me. When I went looking for a truck in 2007, a diesel was 10k more than a gas, once you factor in the required transmission. $50 - $60k is just too much money for a pickup truck. You can buy a lot of gasoline with the $30k that I did not spend on my truck. Funny, my old '93 1500 had a 5.0l engine w/ ~ 170 lb of torque. I got the work done with it, too.

Years ago, battery makers got in to a "horse power" over car batteries. It finally cooled off, when people got tired of it and stopped paying attention.

 

[buickanddeere]

HP is HP . The 2006 cummins was rated for 325HP. Chev at the time had 325 and 345 HP 6.0L gassers Given the difference in upfront purchase price, routine service and Higher diesel fuel costs. The only advantage to having a diesel is to be to say you have a diesel. The 70's,80's and 90's are long gone. Ankther nail in the light truck diesel coffin will be the direct injection gasser V8's. Diesel economy on cheaper fuel, no glow plugs, no turbo, no waste gate, no egr ,no egr cooler, no over size oil pan to fill and no $$$ diesel fuel filter. Post 2007 there is the additional urea injection, particulate filter and re-gen cycles. It's been a long time since a 145HP gasser with points and a carb vs a P pump turbo six with a Five speed.

 

[Renze]

Just thinking of 400+ HP pickups and most trailers under 10,000 lbs and all under 26,000 lbs or so. How did highway semi truck and trailers with 40ton of cargo ever make it cross country and two mountain ranges with a 318 Detroit being a "big" engine?

Well, there is an old farmers saying here, when city folks yell it cant be done, farmers say: "Often you're just too fearful"
In the old days they didnt get all nervous when they had to shift down and double clutch their crash boxes a little... But nowadays... Well it does separate the boys from the men....

Problem is that people think they need to run in the fast lane (with the passenger cars) when hauling 10 ton... instead of with the big rigs. So they think they actually need the same power to weight ratio as a Corolla or Neon...

Been hauling rubble today, to the crusher 20km from here... Using the trusty 1973, 60hp 5718 and my brothers 10 ton dumptrailer... Tomorrow i will have another load on the 10 ton, and i have packed the 5 ton full of other demolition garbage, which is hooked to a 1.5" thick drawbar welded on the back of the 10 ton... Going road train, taking it slow with 20 ton is more economical (both in time and fuel) than rushing two trips...

How it goes ?? Well... it sure works a little to get to the top speed of 25kmh... But because you dont throw all your fuel on accelerating between all the bends and curves in the roads between the woods and towns here, it runs cheaper than a truck... its only one traffic light, and 7 corners i have to go back to 4th becaust that tandem with 20/70-20 tires takes some power to pull it around the corner on the pavement... On the straight, it runs very light on these oversized tires with proper inflation.

 

[Foxtrot08]

The entire diesel industry is waiting for the 2015/2016 mark to come and go, for the US Tier 4 / Euro 6 emission standards, which is going to be a huge change in things. As of right now, it's much easier to build a diesel to fit Euro standards, then the US standards. Come Euro 6 / US Tier 4, that actually 'flips' a bit, where it will be easier to build a diesel to fit US emission specifications.

Rumor is right now, to follow up with the Jeep Grand Cherokee's diesel, the Jeep Wrangler will be getting a 2.8L VM diesel for the 2014 Model year or at the latest, the 2015 model year. As of right now, Jeep brand cannot pass CAFE standards for mileage, mostly due to the wrangler - getting the top end of 19 MPG, where as a fleet needs to average 36? I think, in 2016. Jeep doesn't have that many ultra-fuel efficient cars to balance things out either and the 2.8L diesel is already proven in Europe to get equivalent of 30+ MPG. So even with new emissions stuck on it, you're looking mid to high 20's.


Ford's project 'Lion' has recently become reactivated in the US, after being put on pause since 2003/2004. This is a 4.7L twin turbo diesel, much of the same breed as the 6.4L V8 powerstroke that was seen in the 08-10 model years. As a lot of people know, the 6.4L engine with a bit of tuning is one of the most powerful engines ever released - with the ability to break 800Hp with the stock turbo / fuel systems. However, not the most fuel efficient in the world. Project Lion though, fixes a lot of the issues that the 6.4L had, as it has been in design much longer then the 6.4L was and uses a lot of technology taken from Land Rover's diesel that have been around for ages in Europe.

The only way a 1/2 truck is going to be able to meet CAFE standards in the future is with diesel engines and within the next two years, my sources have basically said everything will be going the way of diesel or natural gas.

Bi-fuel (Gasoline/Natural gas) already 'in the wild' and every major engine manufacturer is pushing R&D funds towards natural gas engines hard, as the different shale booms in Texas, North Dakota, Ohio, PA, NY and Colorado make access to it extremely cheap.

The other nice thing about Natural gas engines, is they are currently not regulated by CAFE standards, so for auto manufacturers, it would be a nice way to increase their standings, without hurting their CAFE standards. (Natural gas engines currently fall into the same category as electric vehicles as 'alternative fuel' vehicles, and have the tax credits to meet them.)

The next 4 years in engine development is going to be really interesting. Diesel is going to be the #1 choice for fuel real soon, as they get more and more efficient and the emissions stuff gets simpler and simpler. Solid state urea is going to make the gallon jugs of it go away, using water from the exhaust or AC units to make the exhaust fluids. Plasma/Propane based systems for heavy trucks will get rid of DPF's and DEF all together, in the next 5-7 years.

 

[Renze]

The entire diesel industry is waiting for the 2015/2016 mark to come and go, for the US Tier 4 / Euro 6 emission standards, which is going to be a huge change in things. As of right now, it's much easier to build a diesel to fit Euro standards, then the US standards. Come Euro 6 / US Tier 4, that actually 'flips' a bit, where it will be easier to build a diesel to fit US emission specifications.

The off road emissions differ VERY little between Europe and USA... in fact they are the same. On-road isnt my business, but i doubt if the differences are as substantial as you claim..

As a lot of people know, the 6.4L engine with a bit of tuning is one of the most powerful engines ever released - with the ability to break 800Hp with the stock turbo / fuel systems. However, not the most fuel efficient in the world. Project Lion though, fixes a lot of the issues that the 6.4L had, as it has been in design much longer then the 6.4L was and uses a lot of technology taken from Land Rover's diesel that have been around for ages in Europe.

Actually Ford does have some diesels in Europe, but they dont have any technology at all... They built a 1.8 TD (which really couldnt hold a candle against VW, Merc or Peugeot diesels) untill 2000 or so, but the 1980's 2.3 was a peugeot... the currently sold 2.0 and 2.2 four, and 2.7 V6 engines are all Peugeot, just the valve cover is made by Ford, with their own name stamped in it.
the Land Rover diesel was a piece of junk, a gas engine running gear, loaded with Diesel compression. Similar disaster as the Oldsmobile and Chevy attempts of the same era. What Land Rover does sell currently, are Peugeot diesels through the Ford cooperation.

The next 4 years in engine development is going to be really interesting. Diesel is going to be the #1 choice for fuel real soon, as they get more and more efficient and the emissions stuff gets simpler and simpler. Solid state urea is going to make the gallon jugs of it go away, using water from the exhaust or AC units to make the exhaust fluids. Plasma/Propane based systems for heavy trucks will get rid of DPF's and DEF all together, in the next 5-7 years.

I bet its getting interesting... but i doubt propane is the final solution: It increases the combustion temperature, which lowers soot emission but increases the need for either EGR or DEF....

 

[buickanddeere]

Kind of a catch 22 situation. The heavier the fuel, with more carbon, the more energy/mileage per lb of fuel. Problem is lighter fuels burn cleaner with hydrogen, natural gas, propane, alcohol, gasoline, Jet A-1 , light diesel such as #2 on through to #6 in that order. It's just so much more difficult to burn the long chain hydrocarbons as clean as the short chains. Looks like LP and direct injectiocurrents currently are affordable,run clean and use a portable fuel source. Compressed natural gas uses heavy tanks, a lot of electricity to compress and suffers short range. If there were more nuclear Plants , of peak steam could be used to convert natural gas into the alcohol group. N