Using my trailer, or abusing it?

[joshuabardwell]

I have a 16', dual-axle, utility trailer, rated for 7000 lbs GVWR. I have recently started using it to move my tractor around, when I need to. My tractor weighs 3050 lbs (per manufacturer specs). Say I've got an implement on as well, up to maybe 1000 lbs, for a total weight around 4000 lbs. Trailer itself is 1600 lbs, for a resulting gross trailer weight of 5600 lbs. I'm 1400 lbs under capacity, so I should be good to go, right?

Well, the story gets a little more complicated. I asked the manufacturer what the loading ramp/gate was rated for, and they said 2000 lbs. So I figured I should be okay to load my tractor, since, even if the weight distribution isn't exactly 50/50, that 2000 lbs probably has a little slop in it. Except, after I loaded my tractor on and off the trailer once, I noticed that the inner two reinforcing members on the gate looked just a teency bit bowed. So I figured, okay, I'll put some jack stands underneath them to provide a little extra support.

Except, I had been using my jack stands to keep the rear of the trailer from dipping, so instead I got a 6 ton bottle jack and put it at the center of the rear of the trailer. I loaded my tractor without incident. My gate has a metal tab on each side that fits between two cylinders, and a pin drops down through the cylinders to hold the gate closed. So when I went to close the gate, one of the metal tabs was butting up against one of the cylinders instead of fitting between the two of them. I pondered what could be causing this. Did I bend the gate when I was loading? On a hunch, I opened the relief valve on the bottle jack and the trailer immediately dropped several inches. The gate closed normally now. The jack had been holding the entire back of the trailer up, and the trailer had flexed in some way such that the gate wouldn't close.

Okay, so here is my question. On the one hand, by the numbers, I am well under my trailer's rated capacity. On the other hand, I am getting what might be several yellow flags that my trailer is not 100% happy with what I'm doing with it. Or am I just being a worrywart? Am I just using my trailer, or am I abusing it?

On a related note: it occurs to me that, although the trailer is rated for 7000 lbs, there are probably some assumptions made about the distribution of that weight. When I load my tractor on the trailer, all of its weight is split between the two frame members underneath the wheels (or, if the wheels are between members, perhaps it's split between four frame members). Are trailers generally engineered to take that kind of loading? Bear in mind this is a general utility trailer, not a car hauler. If anybody out there wants the size/thickness of the steel, to give a more educated opinion, I can provide it.

 

[rasimmo]

I am not sure where the 3050lbs for the tractor came from. That may be dry weight. If the tires are filled you might be closer to the limit than you think. If you put something under the rear of your trailer to support it while loading, you need to set it a cou;le inches low without a load on the trailer. It will squat some with the load on it.
It seems that you should be good though. The jack just had it twisted a little.

 

[Will_C]

I think you are fine on the trailer weight. If I understand correctly, you have a mesk style full width ramp. They are a weak spot-your trailer was probably designed for a landscaper hauling 2-3 mowers that weigh 1,000lbs or so-not loading a 4k trator.

I'd consider buying some ramps that are rated for 5-6k. That should take care of your situation.

Will

 

[s219]

The only bad thing I think you did was to put that bottle jack in the middle and have it support the weight after you were loaded. I use blocks to support the rear of my trailer when loading, and put a set on each side with about 1-2" gap under the frame. So they support the rear of the trailer when driving on, but then the trailer suspension takes over once I am balanced, and the blocks no longer contact the frame (they slide right out).

As far as the gate, the rating may be a bit hard to figure out. It could really be due to the hinge pins for all you know. If the gate has mesh, that will help spread the load and tie the structure together, but that's no good if the pins are the weak point. I think it would be easy to beef up the gate if you're worried, by adding additional hinge points and bracing the gate frame.

If you knew the hinges were OK, then something as simple as a couple 3/4" plywood runners might be enough to reinforce the gate under the tires. Or just use ramps instead. I guess I'd be curious to see a picture of the gate to know what we're dealing with.

By the way, I have a 7x16 landscape trailer with a mesh rear gate and dual 3.5K axles. The gate is made of 1-1/2" square tubing on 12" centers and a light gauge mesh (punched steel rather than expanded steel). The tubing is rather light, I think 0.060" wall, and I wasn't too sure it was strong enough. But the dealer, who also sold me my Kubota, claimed the gate is fine for tractors like my B series (2800-3300# overall with my various implements). Sure enough it's been fine, and the gate is actually stiffer than the one on my small trailer, which has 1/4" angle iron spaced 24" with a heavy mesh.

If I had to carry heavier tractors on my landscape trailer, I'd probably ditch the gate and have some custom ramps welded up.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

just a quick note.

I have seen ALOT of trailers with 2*3500 axles but tires spec'ed for only 1,250lb each (5,000 gross)

are your tires rated for 1750lbs each?

 

[KennyG]

I have a similar sized landscape trailer that also had a weak loading gate. It originally had plywood that made it marginally work but the wind resistance was too high. I changed it out to expanded metal and reinforced it with several 1/8" x 2 inch angles and 1/4" x 2" bars. That worked fine but the weight was increased so much I had to add lift assist springs. A bit of work but it's fine in the end.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I am not sure where the 3050lbs for the tractor came from. That may be dry weight.

If it was a car, curb weight would include all fluids necessary to run the vehicle (oil, coolant, etc...). Since it's not, I'm not sure. Tires are not loaded, so I'm probably within a few hundred pounds of 3050 either way.

I think you are fine on the trailer weight. If I understand correctly, you have a mesk style full width ramp. They are a weak spot-your trailer was probably designed for a landscaper hauling 2-3 mowers that weigh 1,000lbs or so-not loading a 4k trator. I'd consider buying some ramps that are rated for 5-6k. That should take care of your situation.

Yes, exactly. It's expanded metal with angle iron frame and two supports outlining the path a wheel would take up the ramp. Definitely designed for mowers, not tractors. I was hoping the 2k limit would get me by, but I don't think it will. As for buying some ramps... I'll add that to the list of things to buy for my tractor :confused3: It's a good suggestion, but there are other things I would buy for the tractor for $200-$300.

The only bad thing I think you did was to put that bottle jack in the middle and have it support the weight after you were loaded. I use blocks to support the rear of my trailer when loading, and put a set on each side with about 1-2" gap under the frame. So they support the rear of the trailer when driving on, but then the trailer suspension takes over once I am balanced, and the blocks no longer contact the frame (they slide right out).

Got it. I like using the jack stands because they are adjustable height. As long as I give the trailer room to squat, and support both sides of the trailer, it sounds like should be okay.

If you knew the hinges were OK, then something as simple as a couple 3/4" plywood runners might be enough to reinforce the gate under the tires. Or just use ramps instead. I guess I'd be curious to see a picture of the gate to know what we're dealing with.

It's expanded metal mesh welded to an angle iron frame with two angle iron supports outlining the path a wheel would take if you drove up the ramp, so a total of four supports inside the frame. I'd give you a picture, but it's dark out now. Here's a link to the manufacturer's page for the trailer, though: Currahee Trailers - 800 series deluxe double-axle

just a quick note.
I have seen ALOT of trailers with 2*3500 axles but tires spec'ed for only 1,250lb each (5,000 gross)
are your tires rated for 1750lbs each?

Good thought, but I checked that. They're rated for 1820 each at 50 PSI, and I checked the pressure and the torque on all the nuts before setting out.

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is why I am not a fan of gates. Dump the gate and get a set of slide in 5' ramps. You will be glad you did.

As for overloading the trailer you are fine. I have a 2004 Jerry James 7K 18' car hauler. My tractor with implement weighs about 5,600# and I have had no problems and the trailer still looks like the day it did when I bought it. Pole Barn Keep Helps. Anyway, it probably has 75,000 miles on it hauling 10 or so different tractors, 20 different cars, 10 different SUV's/Trucks as big as a Suburban, and tons of fire wood and building materials. Use your trailer up to max weight, keep the bearings and brakes maintenance up, and keep a close eye on the tires and pressures and you will be fine.

Chris

 

[Mounted Madness]

This is why I am not a fan of gates. Dump the gate and get a set of slide in 5' ramps. You will be glad you did.

Chris

Totally agree...a solid set of slide in ramps gets rid of all of your other concerns about your ramp PLUS you don't have wind resistance.

Enjoy...:thumbsup:

 

[jeffsw6]

there are other things I would buy for the tractor for $200-$300.

You might feel differently if you damage the gate or hinges, especially if you damage your tractor or injure yourself in the process. Be careful!

 

[s219]

It's expanded metal mesh welded to an angle iron frame with two angle iron supports outlining the path a wheel would take if you drove up the ramp, so a total of four supports inside the frame. I'd give you a picture, but it's dark out now. Here's a link to the manufacturer's page for the trailer, though: Currahee Trailers - 800 series deluxe double-axle

If the hinges look strong, I bet you could have some additional supports welded into the gate to beef it up. Make sure they get tacked into the mesh, so it can help spread the load.

 

[Soundguy]

Here's my take. you have a trailer that has 2 3500# axles.. and thus for legal purposes.. it's a 7k rated trailer.

now.. every trailer I've seen that has a ramp gate setup.. it usually a light duty trailer made for lawn maintenance. especially if it bowed in the middle when you loaded a 4k tractor on it.

A car hauler / equipment hauler with hd slide in, flip up, or removeable ramps is a more rigid setup.

(2) 3500# axles does not a 7k trailer make. unfortunately..

not all trailers with a 7k tag are equal....

ps.. get a block of wood or dimensional lumber to slide under the rear... a lil squat while laoding is ok.. just don't want to lift the truck rear off the ground and have it take off on you.

as for the loading ramp gate? i'd be getting some other more HD and safer affair setup...

soundguy

I have a 16', dual-axle, utility trailer, rated for 7000 lbs GVWR. I have recently started using it to move my tractor around, when I need to. My tractor weighs 3050 lbs (per manufacturer specs). Say I've got an implement on as well, up to maybe 1000 lbs, for a total weight around 4000 lbs. Trailer itself is 1600 lbs, for a resulting gross trailer weight of 5600 lbs. I'm 1400 lbs under capacity, so I should be good to go, right?

Well, the story gets a little more complicated. I asked the manufacturer what the loading ramp/gate was rated for, and they said 2000 lbs. So I figured I should be okay to load my tractor, since, even if the weight distribution isn't exactly 50/50, that 2000 lbs probably has a little slop in it. Except, after I loaded my tractor on and off the trailer once, I noticed that the inner two reinforcing members on the gate looked just a teency bit bowed. So I figured, okay, I'll put some jack stands underneath them to provide a little extra support.

Except, I had been using my jack stands to keep the rear of the trailer from dipping, so instead I got a 6 ton bottle jack and put it at the center of the rear of the trailer. I loaded my tractor without incident. My gate has a metal tab on each side that fits between two cylinders, and a pin drops down through the cylinders to hold the gate closed. So when I went to close the gate, one of the metal tabs was butting up against one of the cylinders instead of fitting between the two of them. I pondered what could be causing this. Did I bend the gate when I was loading? On a hunch, I opened the relief valve on the bottle jack and the trailer immediately dropped several inches. The gate closed normally now. The jack had been holding the entire back of the trailer up, and the trailer had flexed in some way such that the gate wouldn't close.

Okay, so here is my question. On the one hand, by the numbers, I am well under my trailer's rated capacity. On the other hand, I am getting what might be several yellow flags that my trailer is not 100% happy with what I'm doing with it. Or am I just being a worrywart? Am I just using my trailer, or am I abusing it?

On a related note: it occurs to me that, although the trailer is rated for 7000 lbs, there are probably some assumptions made about the distribution of that weight. When I load my tractor on the trailer, all of its weight is split between the two frame members underneath the wheels (or, if the wheels are between members, perhaps it's split between four frame members). Are trailers generally engineered to take that kind of loading? Bear in mind this is a general utility trailer, not a car hauler. If anybody out there wants the size/thickness of the steel, to give a more educated opinion, I can provide it.

 

[clemsonfor]

I have a 7K 16ft trailer and i have removeable metal ramps made out of angle iron, they easily hold my 2k tractor and will probly hold 3x that weight, they seem to weigh 60lbs a piece. Those ramps with the extruded metal are very light and i dont doubt that you bent it. Get a channel welded on the back and get some removeable ramps to throw in the back of the truck and get that gate off, its a sail after all. As for the weight, those are meant to haul cars trucks or tractors that sit on 4 wheels. The weight is on boards that cross all the cross members to help with load distribution.

 

[clemsonfor]

just a quick note.

I have seen ALOT of trailers with 2*3500 axles but tires spec'ed for only 1,250lb each (5,000 gross)

are your tires rated for 1750lbs each?

I have seen trailers with 2 3500# axles or 7k# trailers with 5000# couplers welded onto them? :confused2:

 

[Renze]

Here's my take. you have a trailer that has 2 3500# axles.. and thus for legal purposes.. it's a 7k rated trailer.

now.. every trailer I've seen that has a ramp gate setup.. it usually a light duty trailer made for lawn maintenance. especially if it bowed in the middle when you loaded a 4k tractor on it.

A car hauler / equipment hauler with hd slide in, flip up, or removeable ramps is a more rigid setup.

(2) 3500# axles does not a 7k trailer make. unfortunately..

Fully agreeing.... From my time at the trailer builder, we took whole different safety margins for curtainsider trailers than for trailers meant to move construction equipment... When moving pallets of groceries (just to name something) the load is evenly distributed over the frame, and the weight before the kingpin, and after the axles, cantilevers the middle.
When going heavy equipment, often pieces of equipment are loaded between the kingpin and axles, where it causes the greatest bend moment. you cant load it differently, or you wont have enough 5th wheel load, or overload the tow vehicles suspension... So that type of trailers is built to take higher pointloads from large equipment.

Also, for forklifts and scissor lifts (with those nasty small solid wheels) we took a 5/16" diamond plate deck with crossmembers every foot, where the aforementioned palletised goods trailers could do with a 3/4" plywood sheet with crossmembers every 2 foot.... Also in trailers counts: horses for courses....

 

[joshuabardwell]

Fully agreeing.... From my time at the trailer builder, we took whole different safety margins for curtainsider trailers than for trailers meant to move construction equipment...

I appreciate this perspective, as it more or less addresses exactly the concerns I have. That being said, I would love to be able to continue trailering my tractor with this trailer, but not if it's going to damage the trailer. Is there any way to assess the construction of the trailer to get a sense of whether it's "enough" or not? I don't know about trailer construction, but by way of analogy, I design wireless networks for a living, and if you told me you had an office building with one radio per 10,000 square feet, I would instantly know the design wasn't up to the task. Something like that. If I was to give more information about the construction of the trailer (thickness of steel, spacing of cross-members, and so forth) would you give me a (non-binding, all Internet disclaimers apply) opinion?

 

[clemsonfor]

Someone will tell you the spacing but i think mine is on 2ft centers for cross members and i think 3" c channel construction??? But if you go to any trialer manufacturer they will list the specs of a trailer. Mine for example is "Lone Wolf" 16 ft economy dovetail car hauler. I think you can look up on the website the specs? Im checking now.

Standard Car Hauler

Here is the link to the trailer i have. but it seems the website is underconstruction (which i think it has been for years?) but they may be missing some stuff like specs?

 

[joshuabardwell]

Oh, and to specifically address the points you raised, I am able to achieve proper tongue weight with a 60/40 loading of the trailer, so putting all of the weight between the axle and the coupler is not an issue, I don't think. But your concern about point load, I think is valid, and I don't really have an objective way to decide whether that's an issue or not.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Someone will tell you the spacing but i think mine is on 2ft centers for cross members and i think 3" c channel construction??? But if you go to any trialer manufacturer they will list the specs of a trailer.?

Look at that, you're right! Currahee Trailers - 800 series deluxe double-axle

Looks like it is 3 x 2 x 3/16 Angle Frame and Crossmembers. Is there a standard table somewhere that I could look up load ratings for a given span of this stuff, or something like that?

 

[joshuabardwell]

Well, shoot, as long as I'm poking around the manufacturer's web site, I may as well ask them. If they say it's okay, on the record, in today's litigious environment, that's got to be gospel.