What limits tow ratings for unibody vehicles?
- Thread starter JDgreen227
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One Top Gear episode had Clarkson driving (well, attempting to at least) an F150 around his local village.
It was a pretty good example of how most of the large personal vehicles here (N. America) are not suitable for many of the old road systems in Europe.
There is a bit of a specmanship and marketing game going on with many manufacturers. BUT, if I was going to tow here (Canada) with a small vehicle, I'd have to do plenty of research to convince myself that I understood ALL of the differences between the Euro and N. American models. Only figuring out the rating, or presence, of a trani cooler after the fact could get expensive, as one example.
Most people just use what makes sense for their circumstances. There are at least a few people on TBN here that spend their weekends trailering boats around N. America, covering distances that few people in Europe travel in personal vehicles. The additional safety and peace of mind a large vehicle provides for these towing applications is money well spent for those folks. White knuckle towing a load 1,000 km does not make for a fun weekend !
In most of Europe, few working people can afford a large vehicle with a large displacement engine. Fuel costs aside, often the licensing taxes alone virtually eliminate that as an option. N. America has it's employment problems (much is hidden), but a working fellow here that has managed to stay employed most of the time can realistically put a pickup on the road, at least as a tow vehicle if not a daily driver.
Many Euro cars have impressed me with the performance of their braking systems. That said, I would not want to try merging onto expressways here towing a 3500 lb trailer with a 4 cylinder vehicle. Not fun (ie. lethally dangerous) on our road systems.
Tow safe, where ever you are..... Rgds, D.
It was a pretty good example of how most of the large personal vehicles here (N. America) are not suitable for many of the old road systems in Europe.
There is a bit of a specmanship and marketing game going on with many manufacturers. BUT, if I was going to tow here (Canada) with a small vehicle, I'd have to do plenty of research to convince myself that I understood ALL of the differences between the Euro and N. American models. Only figuring out the rating, or presence, of a trani cooler after the fact could get expensive, as one example.
Most people just use what makes sense for their circumstances. There are at least a few people on TBN here that spend their weekends trailering boats around N. America, covering distances that few people in Europe travel in personal vehicles. The additional safety and peace of mind a large vehicle provides for these towing applications is money well spent for those folks. White knuckle towing a load 1,000 km does not make for a fun weekend !
In most of Europe, few working people can afford a large vehicle with a large displacement engine. Fuel costs aside, often the licensing taxes alone virtually eliminate that as an option. N. America has it's employment problems (much is hidden), but a working fellow here that has managed to stay employed most of the time can realistically put a pickup on the road, at least as a tow vehicle if not a daily driver.
Many Euro cars have impressed me with the performance of their braking systems. That said, I would not want to try merging onto expressways here towing a 3500 lb trailer with a 4 cylinder vehicle. Not fun (ie. lethally dangerous) on our road systems.
Tow safe, where ever you are..... Rgds, D.
dfkrug
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I am sure many many smaller cars can safely tow trailers that approach
their own weight, if it is properly done.
That, of course, means a well-made hitch. Since unibodies have thinner steel,
they need more mounting points, versus a hitch for a traditional frame. I would
like to see those OEM hitches that BMW sells in Europe. I doubt they are made
like hitches for PU trucks.
Also note that most cars sold in Europe still have manual transmissions. ATs are
increasing in market share there, but the US probably has more than 95% ATs. I
can certainly see how having an AT can limit the towing ability in a car, esp due
to heat dissipation.
Proper trailering means balancing your load tongue-heavy, but the tongue
weight is supposed to be only a few hundred pounds max for a car. That
amount is not going to mess up the suspension geometry. Also, load-leveling
hitches have been around a long time.
Car brakes are amazing theses days, BUT proportional electric trailer brakes
or surge brakes can make for FAR safer towing.
their own weight, if it is properly done.
That, of course, means a well-made hitch. Since unibodies have thinner steel,
they need more mounting points, versus a hitch for a traditional frame. I would
like to see those OEM hitches that BMW sells in Europe. I doubt they are made
like hitches for PU trucks.
Also note that most cars sold in Europe still have manual transmissions. ATs are
increasing in market share there, but the US probably has more than 95% ATs. I
can certainly see how having an AT can limit the towing ability in a car, esp due
to heat dissipation.
Proper trailering means balancing your load tongue-heavy, but the tongue
weight is supposed to be only a few hundred pounds max for a car. That
amount is not going to mess up the suspension geometry. Also, load-leveling
hitches have been around a long time.
Car brakes are amazing theses days, BUT proportional electric trailer brakes
or surge brakes can make for FAR safer towing.
Transmissions are an interesting point df.
As you may know, many (most) vehicles here are rated to tow more with an automatic, than a manual trani.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a BIG fan of manual transmissions.
While I haven't had the time/oppty to do a teardown comparison between two (M/A) transmission offerings for a given platform, my guess is that often the reason for the de-rating of the manual (tow #) is because most Canadians or Americans today have little or no ability to drive stick.
I feel that manual tranis give better feedback when towing heavy - BUT, that requires a skilled driver who is paying attention, and reacts and compensates appropriately.
In other words, the driver has to THINK more when using a manual trani, esp.when towing.
Sadly, I think the manufacturers are mostly right, the average Canadian or American driver would probably kill a clutch pretty quickly when towing.
In the showrooms here, the sell for towing is "buy the Automatic, you get a higher tow rating", but I suspect that is mostly a human factors issue, not so much a Mechanical Engineering based limitation.
Personally, I prefer a manual transmission. I've been surprised to find that many young people here (guys too), can not drive anything but an automatic. It is bad enough that Honda and Subaru, and a few other manufacturers that still make a point of offering stick tranis here have set up free (or nearly free) clinics in Toronto to encourage people to try manual transmissions in a safe, closed course setting.
Kudos to those manufacturers for making the effort, and toasting some clutches for a good cause (OK, potential future business for them, but still....).
Rgds, D.
As you may know, many (most) vehicles here are rated to tow more with an automatic, than a manual trani.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a BIG fan of manual transmissions.
While I haven't had the time/oppty to do a teardown comparison between two (M/A) transmission offerings for a given platform, my guess is that often the reason for the de-rating of the manual (tow #) is because most Canadians or Americans today have little or no ability to drive stick.
I feel that manual tranis give better feedback when towing heavy - BUT, that requires a skilled driver who is paying attention, and reacts and compensates appropriately.
In other words, the driver has to THINK more when using a manual trani, esp.when towing.
Sadly, I think the manufacturers are mostly right, the average Canadian or American driver would probably kill a clutch pretty quickly when towing.
In the showrooms here, the sell for towing is "buy the Automatic, you get a higher tow rating", but I suspect that is mostly a human factors issue, not so much a Mechanical Engineering based limitation.
Personally, I prefer a manual transmission. I've been surprised to find that many young people here (guys too), can not drive anything but an automatic. It is bad enough that Honda and Subaru, and a few other manufacturers that still make a point of offering stick tranis here have set up free (or nearly free) clinics in Toronto to encourage people to try manual transmissions in a safe, closed course setting.
Kudos to those manufacturers for making the effort, and toasting some clutches for a good cause (OK, potential future business for them, but still....).
Rgds, D.
OP
JDgreen227
Super Member
Dave, regarding manual transmissions and towing, my understanding is that it's not the transmission that reduces tow ratings but the clutch instead. I learned how to shift my dad's '53 Jubilee when I was 11 years old and at age 13 I was driving his '57 Ford F100 with a manual, owned several dirt and road bikes with a clutch before I got my license and my first three cars all had a stick shift. My first "real" full time job was driving a '74 IHC straight truck and the reason I was hired was because none of the other applicants could drive a stick....:laughing:
Another of the problems with using a manual for towing is that it's easy to lug the engine either from ignorance and/or laziness. As much as I enjoyed driving a manual shift when I was younger, I cannot think of any car I have owned since 1980 that would have been much fun with a stick...they were all full size boats with low revving engines.
Another of the problems with using a manual for towing is that it's easy to lug the engine either from ignorance and/or laziness. As much as I enjoyed driving a manual shift when I was younger, I cannot think of any car I have owned since 1980 that would have been much fun with a stick...they were all full size boats with low revving engines.
dfkrug
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Interesting. I picked a new common smaller car that offers both AT and manual trans, and
there is no differentiating the tow capacity. I picked the Toyota Corolla, which is 1500#, AT or MT.
Can you provide examples of vehicles with both AT and MT offerings with diff tow ratings?
It is true that people often ruin clutches on MT cars, due to poor training. That is also
true of electro-hyd shift tractors, like Kubota's GST.
I also suspect that PU trucks commonly used for towing may have better tow caps for
AT vs. MT, but MTs are not available for most big PUs. I just checked the websites
for Ford F150 and Chevy 1500. ATs only.
I love MTs in a car/pu, and love ATs in a tractor. I can sure see how it can be hard
on a MT's clutch when you start moving, hauling a big load. Esp on a hill.
toppop52
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Not a car, this is a Chevy Colorado that shows the difference in tow rating favoring the auot trans;
Maximum towing capacity (lb /
kg) with 2.9 Vortec 4 cyl
manual.............................automatic...................
Regular cab 2WD: 2400 / 1088 3400 / 1542
Regular cab 4WD: 2100 / 953 3100 / 1406
Extended cab 2WD: 2200 / 998 3200 / 1451
Extended cab 4WD: 1900 / 862 2900 / 1315
Crew cab 2WD: 2100 / 952 3000 / 1361
Crew cab 4WD: N/A N/A 5500 / 2495
Maximum tongue weight: Trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of
total loaded trailer weight up to 400 lb / 182 kg
Maximum towing capacity (lb /
kg) with 2.9 Vortec 4 cyl
manual.............................automatic...................
Regular cab 2WD: 2400 / 1088 3400 / 1542
Regular cab 4WD: 2100 / 953 3100 / 1406
Extended cab 2WD: 2200 / 998 3200 / 1451
Extended cab 4WD: 1900 / 862 2900 / 1315
Crew cab 2WD: 2100 / 952 3000 / 1361
Crew cab 4WD: N/A N/A 5500 / 2495
Maximum tongue weight: Trailer tongue weight should be 10 percent to 15 percent of
total loaded trailer weight up to 400 lb / 182 kg
OP
JDgreen227
Super Member
dfkrug posts about the 1500# towing capacity of his Corolla...and according to what I found online that car has a base weight of 2770 pounds...my '04 Lesabre has a base weight of 3570 pounds but the tow rating is only 1000#...makes little sense to me....his car can pull over half it's weight but mine is limited to about a quarter of it's weight. Smart engineering by Mr. Monkeywrench !!!
radioman
Super Member
perhaps overseas car has higher tow rating due to fact its manual as it can use engine for braking when downshifting. you cant exactly force it with a auto....
Diamondpilot
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Almost every truck I have seen has a much higher tow rating with a auto versus a stick. Been this way for years but its really a mute point. None of the major manufactures still offer a stick since about 09 or so. Just not the call for them and even more important the autos are so much better plus they are able to make the fleet MPG ratings needed to make the Gub-ment happy.
You guys can have the sticks. I have had about 20 vehicles, maybe 4 or so sticks. Its not that I cant drive them, I grew up on the farm. Its just they are a pain in the butt and towing a big boat is not fun at all on a steep wet ramp with 16,000# hanging off the back. Give me a auto any day of the week.
Chris
You guys can have the sticks. I have had about 20 vehicles, maybe 4 or so sticks. Its not that I cant drive them, I grew up on the farm. Its just they are a pain in the butt and towing a big boat is not fun at all on a steep wet ramp with 16,000# hanging off the back. Give me a auto any day of the week.
Chris
