Home construction prices in Canada...what the heck is going on?

[clemsonfor]

The little thing of mal practive insurance is not cheap. I get the point your making. I dont think $35-40k is fare for someone with tools and work there but off. But they dont have the tools a doc has and the education. Like i said they can have hundreds of thousand in school loans to pay off, when there a doc at 28!

I understand how much ladders, hammer, saws , more saws, sanders jointers, etc cost. I use to do it and also still do my own stuff so i know what the stuff costs. But my wife works in a vet office. They have a therepy laser, i think the thing cost $40k and they just got DIgital x-ray. I dont remember what they said but i am thinking that is $60k i may be way off? Unless they have top of the line jointers planers and cabinet shop stuff they wont come close to those costs.

A dozen nail guns, a compressor and a dozen saws or various types will not come to but half the lazer cost if they buy top top top of the line everything, for the normal trim/finish carpenter.

 

[yelbike]

The little thing of mal practive insurance is not cheap. I get the point your making. I dont think $35-40k is fare for someone with tools and work there but off. But they dont have the tools a doc has and the education. Like i said they can have hundreds of thousand in school loans to pay off, when there a doc at 28!

I understand how much ladders, hammer, saws , more saws, sanders jointers, etc cost. I use to do it and also still do my own stuff so i know what the stuff costs. But my wife works in a vet office. They have a therepy laser, i think the thing cost $40k and they just got DIgital x-ray. I dont remember what they said but i am thinking that is $60k i may be way off? Unless they have top of the line jointers planers and cabinet shop stuff they wont come close to those costs.

A dozen nail guns, a compressor and a dozen saws or various types will not come to but half the lazer cost if they buy top top top of the line everything, for the normal trim/finish carpenter.

Good point.

 

[EddieWalker]

Another quick example of service being what people pay for. A client who organizes for people needs more shelves for a high end house that is about five years old. She called the cabinet guy who built them and emailed them the list of shelves she needed cut and painted. No reply. She called a cabinet guy who she had build her cabinets in her custom home a couple years ago with the same info and no reply. She called me and I said sure, I'll do it. it's 15 pieces of cabinet grade plywood cut to size out of two 4x8 sheets of plywood. Sanding and a quart of primer and a quart of oil based enamil sprayed onto both sides, more light sanding and I'm done. $560 for a total of 4 hours work in my shop that nobody else wanted to do. Client is happy and wanting me to do more things for them because I provided a service that others didn't.

Eddie

 

[xtn]

Discussing what trades or professions deserve to earn is useless. There is one simple concept responsible for what a guy can earn. Supply and demand.

If enough upper income folks are willing to pay for high-end home construction including their contractor's inflated profit, then that contractor can earn that much. If enough people are willing to pay a doctor's bills that include his costs of expensive education, equipment, commercial office lease, etc, as well as a hefty profit, then that doctor can earn that much.

It's as simple as that. Talking about who ought to make more than the other might be interesting on a philosophical level, but is otherwise a waste of breath.

xtn

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

It's as simple as that. Talking about who ought to make more than the other might be interesting on a philosophical level, but is otherwise a waste of breath.

xtn

At first glance, one might think that to be true. However, anytime a real or perceived problem exists Consultants will figure a way to help solve it and feather their own nests in the process. Many of you will remember in the good old days, females were often paid less than males to doing the same or similar work or work of equal value. Eventually this was perceived to be unfair, especially in female dominated workplaces, such as GOV and in the highly unionized MUSH sector (Municipalities, Universities, Schools, Hospitals). The solution - Pay Equity - and a whole process to evaluate jobs based on education, skills, physical, responsibility, interaction with others and other "measurable" indices. Where direct comparison was not possible those with high foreheads came up with "shadow jobs."

Not surprisingly, the results often turned out positively for the female staff and their wages rose. It was now possible to put a number or at least a range to the value of each job in an organization. The clerk in the billing office could be compared to the painter in maintenance. The value of an HR Recruiter could be compared to a Nurse. Woe the organization that had a highly paid male dominated job that became the comparitor for a group of female denominated jobs. To create an example, say there were three male painters in the organization being paid $25. per hour and that job had a rating of 400 points. Let's say there were 75 female clerks being paid $12. per hour and their job comes in with a ranking of 395 points. Guess what? - In relatively short order those 75 clerks are also making $25 per hour.

With Pay Equity mandated and in place, wage gaps were eliminated over time. Of course, having instituted Pay Equity the system needed to be maintained, so staff had to be trained (or consultants retained) to review and revise the studies as required.

So for many - not a waste of breath at all.

 

[xtn]

I see what you mean, Cinder. But that's a process that plays out within a company, right? Doesn't work to set relative pay between a doctor, a residential contractor and a forestry service supervisor, does it? At least not in our current capitalist system.

 

[xtn]

...... Error... Cannot delete duplicate post.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I see what you mean, Cinder. But that's a process that plays out within a company, right? Doesn't work to set relative pay between a doctor, a residential contractor and a forestry service supervisor, does it? At least not in our current capitalist system.

You're right the direct correlation is missing. As someone mentioned previously Supply & Demand - good old Economics 101 comes into play for sure. One of the great myths of getting a University education is that it is / used to be a guarantee of a good job. The educational aspect supposedly reflects an ability to think and reason and in some cases lack thereof represents a barrier to entry for quite a few jobs. This may not be fair, but is true. Once the door is open, the candidate must then bring a certain needed skill to the job market. For example someone who spent 8 years getting a PHD in Ancient Greek History may have difficulty getting that six figure job. On the other hand the person with a Computer Sciences degree may be highly recruited by the likes of Microsoft.

There are many factors involved in determining remuneration for individual jobs and while the process is not as formalized as within a single organization many of the same factors come into play within capitalistic society just not as obvious.

Two sons are Master Electricians, although current jobs do not actually involve pulling wire. I've hired lots of college grads for 1/2 or less what they make. Not saying University education is not good, but sometimes it is highly overrated.

Anyway, to get back to the OP's original thought. Current house we occupy was constructed in early 2003 for approx $120 per SQFT including land, servicing, closing costs etc - all in. Nine years later a Contractor down the street is building similar houses for $300 SQFT. If that bubble bursts as MO7 thinks it will - hope I'm not around to see it.

 

[clemsonfor]

Cinder, im with you. I dont think my education is a ticket to sucess. I graduated with many guys that i hate to say have the same degree i do. But my point is im in a higher place than they are now. I do make more than they do. But could i have done my job after years on the job training. YES, would i know everything i know now NO. There is just no way to know the philosiphy or why things are done the way they are without some formal education. there are many things i learned as a forester that if i were to apprintice with a forester in my current field i would never learn, many may not be usefull in real world. But what would you think if i was your forester and you asked me what a certain type of oak was and i could not tell you whether it was a N. red oak or a scarlet oak and then did not even know the latin name of the genus. You would question other abilities. Now if i was recomended you probly would not care, but if i was just a cold call and did not answer some questions that would not look good for me.

 

[MotorSeven]

Current house we occupy was constructed in early 2003 for approx $120 per SQFT including land, servicing, closing costs etc - all in. Nine years later a Contractor down the street is building similar houses for $300 SQFT. If that bubble bursts as MO7 thinks it will - hope I'm not around to see it.

For that kind of a rise in price in a very short 9 years is what should be very frightening. House prices in a normal market should gain less than 5% a year, so your neighborhood should now be around $160 as sq ft.....$300 is double that. I watched this train wreck in South Florida. My house I bought in '92($115) doubled by 2003($230, and I sold it), then by 2005 had doubled again well into the $4's.....then the crash. That same house recently sold somewhere between the '92 & 2003 price....which is in my opinion the needed market correction.

Anytime we see such a rapid rise in home prices, something has to be wrong. It may be a different wrong than what we experienced(and still are) in the US, but it's still wrong. Here we are 8 years later and houses here in foreclosure are still selling for less that the materials it cost to build them...forget about labor costs. Many here who wanted to build have adapted to the depressed market and bought a house already built for 50% less that it would cost them to build it. This is a big hole to climb out of, and if we don't get a foot hold soon, we are going to be facing a full blown depression.