front bucket hydraulic issues, and 50 hour tune up?

[owlranch]

Hey Guys,
I am very new to the tractor owning thing. I recently acquired a Jinma 354 with the front bucket, gannon and backhoe. I was told something about doing a fluids and filter change at 50 hours; does that mean all fluids and filters or certain ones at certain time intervals? I cant find the owners manual at home (not even sure if there was one to begin with or not), nor can I find one online that isn't written in Chinese. Any Help?
I am also having hydraulic issues. One of the fittings came loose and drained almost all of the hydro fluid, I re filled it, but it being chinese, me being good with the how to use, but the lack of knowledge for hydraulics, I don't know what I did wrong. Only suggestion that I have gotten so far is that I need to bleed the hydro lines, but once again being new to the whole how to fix not only operate hydraulics thing, I don't know where is the bleeder value for a jinma 354 actually is? As for whats working vs. not: everything works the way it's supposed to, EXCEPT the front bucket won't go up. Should I start with the bleeding or what else should I look at while troubleshooting this issue?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, I typically don't like learning on the cuff like this, but I am too far in to op out now.

 

[greg_g]

Metal milling scraps work loose in the first 50 hours, it's good to drain/flush everything to get rid of it. There actually should be 4 individual manuals; tractor operation and maintenance, tractor parts, engine operation and maintenance, engine parts. Give your stated experience level, I'd look a bit harder for them. Replace with new if necessary.

Hydraulics: some Chinese tractors come off the line with Teflon tape on the hydraulic couplings. This (and other) crap has been known to come loose and gum up narrow fluid passages, one of which is the loader controller and associated lift hoses. That's where I'd start looking first. These tractors have a vented hydraulic system by the way. Healthy systems bleed automatically. A little shuddering as the air bubbles pass through, then back to work.

//greg/

 

[EE_Bota]

And bleeding really should not be an issue on the loader. Most times on loaders, stroking all cylinders full stroke a few times seems to be sufficient. It is always a good idea to look at the fluid level versus the level of the intake port on the pump. Sometimes it may be smart to park the tractor in a position to facilitate making sure the pump supply lines gets filled and the air there is displaced.

 

[owlranch]

The main problem that I having though is that I can't get the bucket up all the way in order to extend all of the cylinders. I talked to a John Deere dealership today (being the only dealership within 100 miles) 0and they had no idea why anyone would flush their fluids and change their filters, apperantly according to them, John Deere's don't require maintenance until around 500 hours. I don't know how accurate that is, but I don't have a JD either. They did mention that perhaps the cylinders are bad? is that possible? an are they specific cylinders that I need?

In response to Greg's statement. Do you know where I can find manuals for a chinese tractor? I don't even know where to start looking.

 

[Rich Waugh]

YOu can get all the manuals you need from Affordable Tractor Sales, one of the advertisers and frequent contributors on this forum. https://affordabletractorsalesco.com/index.php

 

[greg_g]

The main problem that I having though is that I can't get the bucket up all the way in order to extend all of the cylinders. I talked to a John Deere dealership today (being the only dealership within 100 miles) 0and they had no idea why anyone would flush their fluids and change their filters, apperantly according to them, John Deere's don't require maintenance until around 500 hours. I don't know how accurate that is, but I don't have a JD either. They did mention that perhaps the cylinders are bad? is that possible? an are they specific cylinders that I need?

In response to Greg's statement. Do you know where I can find manuals for a chinese tractor? I don't even know where to start looking.

Anyone who sells Jinmas or Jinma clones will sell you a set of manuals. Believe me, they'll get well used.

Very different manufacturing techniques separate Jinma and John Deere. The dealership is clearly unaware of this. The main reason is machining tolerance, the Chinese are nowhere nearly as precise on this grade of tractor. They're making 1950 and 1960 vintage tractors in the 21st century. As in the 50s and 60s, there's gonna be a lot of milling scraps that break free during break-in. Same with headbolts. Besides the complete flush, it's necessary to retorque the heads at 50 hours as well. And while the valve cover is off, it's a good idea to adjust valve lash at the same time.

//greg//

 

[RonMar]

Well, with the loader being heavy, and it won't go up all the way, sounds like it could possibly be crap in the relief valve allowing it to stick open and not build full pressure. IE: it lifts so far, then the mechanical relationship changes and the system cannot build enough pressure to go any further. Will the loader lift any load? Trying to lift a loaded bucket will confirm this. If the relief is leaking, it won't be able to lift any additional weight...

Another possibility is that there is not enough fluid in the tank. so as those big old loader lift cylinders extend, the fluid level in the reservoir gradually lowers and reaches a point where it starves the pump. Does the sound change when you reach the point where it stops? Does it stutter and act like it is passing air after you try to lift to full height?

Troubleshooting hydraulics is not particularly difficult, but you really need a way to put a pressure gauge into the system to check for proper pressure. IF you have quick connects between pump and loader valve, that is one easy way to add a high pressure gauge to measure system pressure. A pair of QC fittings a high pressure "T" and hydraulic gauge(0-5000PSI) and you are in buisness. Only use fittings rated for hydraulic pressure When working with hydraulics, changing fittings and testing/adjusting pressures, ALWAYS wear safety glasses, gloves and long sleeves. Hydraulic injection injuries are one of the most nasty things that can happen to you. The injected oil usually results in an amputation from infection, so pay attention to what you are working on, and stay clear of newly installed fittings untill they are pressure tested.

 

[J_J]

Re-check all your QD's for correct connection.

Like others have said, install a hyd gage in the IN port of the FEL valve to monitor and trouble shoot the tractor hyd system.

With the bucket flat on the ground, can you tilt the bucket on the ground such as to raise the front wheels off the ground.

This will check pump, valve and loader cyl.

You might also try swapping the tilt hose with the lift hoses.

Your system hyd pressure is 2320 psi. 16 Mpa

http://www.jinma-tractor.com/download/《JM30-354E英文说明书》.pdf

 

[owlranch]

Thank you all for the advice. And just in time to boot. I am not sure which worked, but the pressure valve thing read right at about 2200 psi, so it was a little low, but higher then I like to mess with so I left it as it was. I swapped the cables for the lift/fill on the bucket and was able to extend the bucket all the way up, but then the tilt on the bucket stopped working. I checked the hydro level and it was low. I think that when I filled it and I thought that I had it full I didn't think about the fact that the cylinders were all fully released, so ever after I added 1.5 gallons, I was still short when the system was pushing out.

Thank you all for the advice. I was able to learn a few things along the way that hopefully will be helpful in the future.

....and JJ, I like your quote, its very accurate.

 

[owlranch]

There was no change in the sound other then the straining of the hydro system. I tend to keep the RPMs up pretty high, I was working with a CAT endloader in Iraq that unless the RPMs were double the idle speed, the bucket wouldn't even leave the ground. (and that was my first experience with hydraulics. lol

The best that it did was get high enough that I could move it and then from there it was right below the headlights. Then it would stop.

The problem has been solved though so I do appreciate the advice and the assistance.