2012 NH Boomer 30 HST or Kioti CK30 HST? Value?

[BoonDoc]

Hi everyone, new guy here. I'm going to take the plunge this month and get a CUT. I had an afternoon at the local dealer this weekend to look at both the Boomer 30 and CK30. They have almost the same specs, weigh the same, felt the same, and after incentives, both were around $17.5K. That was the first offer. They both came FEL with easy disconnect option, free delivery to my camp and loaded back wheels. The dealer sings the praises of both. The dealer felt the NH had the edge in holding value because of recognition but added that Kioti in the US is growing rapidly while NH had dropped off. Both the engines were said to be made in South Korea. He said with the exception of color, they were almost the same feature-wise.

Is the price in line with what others have experienced? It was a little more than I had expected. I figured, MSRP or just below. Loader's free. I thought the MSRP's on these two were in the high 15's. Do the dealers have as much flexibility as car dealerships? My neighbor said there's very little, but I can't see why. If his first pitch was $17,500, what would be a reasonable counter?

Cheers,
Doc

 

[IH3444]

New Holland T3040 Boomer FWD Hydro 3 years old, less than 70 hours w/attachments

 

[BoonDoc]

New Holland T3040 Boomer FWD Hydro 3 years old, less than 70 hours w/attachments

Nice tractor! Don't need a box blade, but sure like the stump bucket and the extra 10HP. Too bad I'll be needing dealer financing, and, as I don't know *** about repairs, am counting on the manufacturer's warranty more than most.

 

[k0ua]

Man the 3040 is a DEAL.. that is a Shibaura tractor too. ... nice tractor and implements... someone should jump on that.

James K0UA

 

[engine29]

Nothing wrong w/ Kioti, the N.H. reputation isn't as good now as before since they went w/ LS. A N.H. dealer in Missouri took on Kioti and has sold
a boatload of them compared to NH.
As far as pricing, no, it is not like cars. What he has quoted is pretty much where he needs to be. Only @ a 10% margin at best. You could come in a little lower (2-300 less) but don't offend him. Don't waste his or your time offering a thousand less. It won't happen.
In my area, a CK 30 hydro runs @ 17.850.

 

[94BULLITT]

Both tractors are made in South korea. Like someone already said the New Holland is a LS. One thing you may want to consider if you get the kioti and they got out of business where is the next Kioti dealer. Have you looked at Kubota L3200 or John Deere 3032? I know with a kubota they usually start at 10% or 12% off msrp. If you look around some you may find one in the 15%-18% range. I think the larger the tractor the more you will get off of msrp sometimes. Kubota is doing 0% APR for 60 months and no payment til April 2013.

 

[murphy1244]

If you buy a L series Kubota check the 3 point with load for jerky hitch. It may or may not bother you but you should be aware of it.Kioti gives you more for your money.

 

[BoonDoc]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I did originally stop by a new JD dealership and spoke with a salesman for a while. I told him that I knew JD's were the "cadillac" of tractors and came with a price to match. Not so, he replied after a laugh. He said in most cases he could beat "most other brands" and mentioned that he consistently beats Massey and Kubota. I can't imagine he could match the Kioti or NH price but I might give him a call back anyway just to see.

As for the CK30 and Boomer 30, I'm still on the fence. Same features, same size, same price. After reading hundreds of posts of owners of each, I'm sensing that Kioti is a rising star while NH took a drop. Extrapolating time-wise, would this translate to more parts and service for Kiotis? I sat in each a while going over layout and features but will need to try them both in action next weekend. One person had mentioned that he preferred two pedals in the HST as the single rocker pedal forces him to slide a bit forward in his seat to reverse. Any thoughts on comfort comparison in these two models? Lastly, seems like pricing is right at 17 and change as everywhere I look there are similar quotes. I did see a couple posts here from 09 where people had gotten the CK30 package for as low as 15. I suppose prices have edged up in the last few years. In the end, I hope it won't come down to choosing my favorite color! :laughing:

Doc

Ah almost forgot. Which Deere would match most closely the class/features/size of the CK30 and TC30?

 

[k0ua]

One person had mentioned that he preferred two pedals in the HST as the single rocker pedal forces him to slide a bit forward in his seat to reverse. Any thoughts on comfort comparison in these two models?

Lots of people seem to prefer the 2 pedal.. I have always used the single pedal design, and preferred it. However this last tractor a Kioti came with the 2 pedal system and I have adapted to it ok.. I still fondly remember the single pedal, but I am doing fine with the 2. Truthfully I don't think it matters all that much, it is just kinda what you get used to. Perhaps the single pedal is still a little faster to change directions rapidly, as in grading, but there is also more to it than pedals. Part of the rapidity is how the dampener is set up by the manufacture. My Kioti is a little slushy, or slow changing directions the last Kubota was very fast. They can be set TOO fast as in snap your neck fast . The Kubota HST+ is a premium hydrostat offered only on the Grand L series, and it allows you to change that response at any time with a knob on the dash..That would be cool, but I don't have one. To sum up, I don't think it matters that much how the pedals work, at least it didn't for me, I adapted to either one.

James K0UA

 

[BoonDoc]

I got you, James. Thanks. I would have figured the same as I've never used either style of pedal, I'd not be missing what I never knew.

I see you own a DK35. I sat in the DK series and loved the size and feel. Due to a cash flow (no cash, no flow) problem, I was "just lookin', not cookin'. To confuse me more, another nearby dealer threw an offer at me on another model. A CK30 HST/FEL for $18K or, a new DS4110 he has with HST and FEL for $18,500. The first dealer had told me the DS series were bare bones models and not as good a value. Of course, the extra 10HP seems a good value to me. As the owner of a new 100 acre camp (almost all woods) my needs are varied. I'm only able to visit on weekends for the most part. Even then, I can't imagine more than occasional use of the tractor, mostly for maintaining a 1/2 mile dirt road in, tilling a half acre of soil, lifting or moving logs out of the way, and mowing a half acre. I'm thinking 40HP is a bit more than I'd need in any case. So it comes down to slightly smaller tractor with more creature comforts, or the DS with more HP and slightly more weight.

 

[BoonDoc]

The JD sales/dealership owner got back to me quickly and actually stood by his word and matched the price for what he said was the most comparable model to the CK30 and Boomer30. The 3032E with the FEL attached for $17,500. Delivery is up to me and my camp is 200 miles from this dealership. I could of course, rent a trailer. OK, I got the fact that it's a JD. But beyond that, I took a look at the specs and noticed the 3032E is smaller, lighter, and has non-removable loader arms and pistons. It does have 1.5HP more than the CK. At 1000lbs less and with 6" less wheelbase, I'm not sure that it's comparing apples and apples here. Resale value and dealer support for JD is without question. But aside from the color, this particular JD model doesn't seem to measure up to the others. Jump to a higher model and the price is no longer compatible. Props to the JD guy for getting back to me and making a great offer. Still, I'm liking the Kioti more and more.

 

[k0ua]

I got you, James. Thanks. I would have figured the same as I've never used either style of pedal, I'd not be missing what I never knew.

I see you own a DK35. I sat in the DK series and loved the size and feel. Due to a cash flow (no cash, no flow) problem, I was "just lookin', not cookin'. To confuse me more, another nearby dealer threw an offer at me on another model. A CK30 HST/FEL for $18K or, a new DS4110 he has with HST and FEL for $18,500. The first dealer had told me the DS series were bare bones models and not as good a value. Of course, the extra 10HP seems a good value to me. As the owner of a new 100 acre camp (almost all woods) my needs are varied. I'm only able to visit on weekends for the most part. Even then, I can't imagine more than occasional use of the tractor, mostly for maintaining a 1/2 mile dirt road in, tilling a half acre of soil, lifting or moving logs out of the way, and mowing a half acre. I'm thinking 40HP is a bit more than I'd need in any case. So it comes down to slightly smaller tractor with more creature comforts, or the DS with more HP and slightly more weight.

Judging by what you said you need to do, I would probably get the CK. I like creature comforts more and more as I get older.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

The JD sales/dealership owner got back to me quickly and actually stood by his word and matched the price for what he said was the most comparable model to the CK30 and Boomer30. The 3032E with the FEL attached for $17,500. Delivery is up to me and my camp is 200 miles from this dealership. I could of course, rent a trailer. OK, I got the fact that it's a JD. But beyond that, I took a look at the specs and noticed the 3032E is smaller, lighter, and has non-removable loader arms and pistons. It does have 1.5HP more than the CK. At 1000lbs less and with 6" less wheelbase, I'm not sure that it's comparing apples and apples here. Resale value and dealer support for JD is without question. But aside from the color, this particular JD model doesn't seem to measure up to the others. Jump to a higher model and the price is no longer compatible. Props to the JD guy for getting back to me and making a great offer. Still, I'm liking the Kioti more and more.

Doesnt the Kioti have SSQA also? 3 speed hydrostat vs 2 speed and telescoping lower 3pt links and stabilizers. That is worth a bunch. trust me. Without a doubt, the JD service organization it better, in that you could move anywhere and be sure to find a dealer and parts. The Kioti is a better equipped machine with more weight, and way more features.

James K0UA

 

[BoonDoc]

Thanks for the reply, James. I take your experience to heart. BTW, whats SSQA?

 

[k0ua]

Thanks for the reply, James. I take your experience to heart. BTW, whats SSQA?

SSQA= Skid Steer Quick Attach on your Front End Loader. also known as BobTach or just Quick Attach. A universal standard to exchange bucket, forks, grapples or any tool you can think up and make that will attach on the front of your FEL arms. I was thinking even the KL130 loaders had it, but perhaps not. Check and see if the bucket comes off of the loader arms.

James K0UA

 

[BoonDoc]

SSQA= I was thinking even the KL130 loaders had it, but perhaps not. Check and see if the bucket comes off of the loader arms.

James K0UA

I was told by the NH/Kioti dealer that the CK30HST package he offered me would have the quick attach on the FEL. The Boomer, I'm not so sure. I've read the JD 3032 can lose the bucket but never the arms/hydraulics. Presumably, that would limit my attachment options for the front? If so, I'd rule out the JD right off the bat.

 

[94BULLITT]

I took a look at the specs and noticed the 3032E is smaller, lighter, and has non-removable loader arms and pistons. It does have 1.5HP more than the CK. At 1000lbs less and with 6" less wheelbase, I'm not sure that it's comparing apples and apples here.

The 3032 is in the same class, I think it just is made of a lot of aluminum, that's why it is lighter. Did you look at a Kubota L3200 yet?

 

[BoonDoc]

The 3032 is in the same class, I think it just is made of a lot of aluminum, that's why it is lighter. Did you look at a Kubota L3200 yet?

It's my impression that essentially a tractor pushes, pulls and lifts. I've been told that boils down to two things. Power and traction. People seem to want the heaviest tractor possible. I plan on doing quite a bit of FEL work. The JD guy said I can purchase his box weight for the rear hitch for that, but 1000 lbs is a lot of difference as is the 6" wheelbase. I plan on looking at the L3200 this weekend when I find the nearest Kubota dealership. My neighbor has the L4240 and swears by Kubota. His experiences with his last two JDs couldn't have been good. When I asked about them, he said his were in the shop from the get-go and mutters something best not repeated. Talking about his 8N with great pride, he paused and smiled looking up. I'd swear I saw a tear in his eye.

 

[k0ua]

It's my impression that essentially a tractor pushes, pulls and lifts. I've been told that boils down to two things. Power and traction. People seem to want the heaviest tractor possible. I plan on doing quite a bit of FEL work. The JD guy said I can purchase his box weight for the rear hitch for that, but 1000 lbs is a lot of difference as is the 6" wheelbase. I plan on looking at the L3200 this weekend when I find the nearest Kubota dealership. My neighbor has the L4240 and swears by Kubota. His experiences with his last two JDs couldn't have been good. When I asked about them, he said his were in the shop from the get-go and mutters something best not repeated. Talking about his 8N with great pride, he paused and smiled looking up. I'd swear I saw a tear in his eye.

Keep in mind your friends L4240 is in a different class of any of the tractors we have discussed. It is a deluxe, heavy full featured tractor. Yes doing loader work weight is important, in the chassis of the tractor, as well as you will also need 3pt weight to "unload" stress on your front axle now matter which tractor you are going to get. This is both a safety issue as well as a equipment abuse issue. A properly ballasted and balanced tractor is a happy tractor. You are safer and the tractor is safer.
You will find the L3200 is a nice tractor, but it also is a "standard" tractor, meaning it is missing a lot of the convenience features like telescoping lower links and stabilizers,
Does not have cruise control standard, but it is offered as an option. Some of them have a jerky 3pt when going up slowly. In other words, cost cutting measures were taken to keep the price lower. It does outweigh the JD, and has a nice removable loader, that has a bit more power and lift height, and it also has a 3 range hydrostat instead of the 2 range on the JD. It also does not have any aluminum castings. If you have some extra cash, look at the Grand L series in Kubota, and the DK series in Kioti. Unfortunately Kioti is no longer making the Dk35se like I have, because they could not fit the Tier4 final emission equipment needed to meet the 2013 specs on the smaller chassis of this tractor, so the smallest DK is the DK40 a larger chassis 40 horse tractor. Good luck in what ever you choose.

James K0UA

 

[BoonDoc]

Great info you guys are giving me. I'm learning more everytime I log in and thank you for that.

I must admit, the JD is trying his best. He sent me several good counterpoints to my criticism over weight differences. Weight is greater in the NH and Kioti because they use more steel plates and welds to accomplish the necessary bends and joints. JD has the industrial advantage of being able to put bends in much larger plates, eliminating many weld points and thus, weight. I understand his point but not sure I buy it completely. How can a 6" longer wheelbase not be responsible for a good share of the greater weight? There's more to it than some extra welds. He points out that while the FEL arms are not detachable, the bucket is a quick detach. Also that kioti's PTO is live while NH and JD are independent.

Question: if the FEL arms are not detachable, will this interfere with the use of various front end implements? Is this a serious drawback?