Kioti Injection Pump Failure Warning

[ritcheyvs]

For those considering a Kioti tractor: Most owners are very satisfied with their tractors but be aware that several current owners have experienced injection pump failures. Based on posts on the owner-operator forum, this problem seems to effect 2005-2008 models. A new IP is costly (vicinity of $1000-2000) so this is not a trivial repair. The typical symptom is: tractor runs fine but won't restart after the engine is shut down. In several cases the cause was verified to be broken teeth on the gears and rack inside the injection pump. I don't recall cases where Kioti provided "out-of-warranty" assistance.

I have just begun collecting information on this failure from reports on the owner-operator forum:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...254141-kioti-injection-pump-failure-data.html
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Kioti_IP_Data.htm

 

[gumshu]

Is this for the DK or CK series.. or both?

 

[ritcheyvs]

Both. There are more CK reports but maybe that's because there are more CKs.

 

[finspop]

I think Kioti is walking on thin ice with their response to this issue (assuming the accounts posted here are accurate, which I have no doubt they are). If they are not going to issue a recall, they should be replacing every pump failure under, say, 1000 hours whether the tractor is still under warranty or not. I bought my DK40SE before hearing of the injector pump issues and the seemingly indifferent response from the company; if I HAD heard of these issues, I would not have purchased the tractor.

Not so much because of what it says about the tractor, but because of what it says about the company.

Wake up, Kioti!

 

[Deerherd]

This is a good example of something being blown out of proportion on the Internet, and people piling on without really thinking. Looking at the spreadsheet there are 12 people with problems and about half have been replaced under warranty, the other outcomes haven't yet been determined. Oh yeah, and it appears to be a problem mostly with tractors from 6 years ago. From what I can gather Kioti sells over 3000 tractors a year and the failure rate for this problem is a small percentage of 1%. Based on the figures of the spreadsheet it happens about once in every 1500 tractors sold over the last 6 years. Looks like a good reason to BUY a Kioti.

 

[finspop]

Deerherd makes an interesting point... it would be good to know just what percentage of tractors are experiencing pump failures. KiotiDave (Upper Valley Tractor in NH) says it's about 1%, based on his estimate of 8 or 9 failures out of 800 or 900 machines sold. It does seem possible that TBN - great as it is - becomes something of an echo chamber for complaints.

Still, it sure does seem as if Kioti could be doing a better job on customer service, particularly in relation to a known weak point.

 

[Luremaker]

Deerherd makes an interesting point... it would be good to know just what percentage of tractors are experiencing pump failures. KiotiDave (Upper Valley Tractor in NH) says it's about 1%, based on his estimate of 8 or 9 failures out of 800 or 900 machines sold. It does seem possible that TBN - great as it is - becomes something of an echo chamber for complaints.

Still, it sure does seem as if Kioti could be doing a better job on customer service, particularly in relation to a known weak point.

I agree, it may be being blown out of proportion, but what if it happened to you just after the warranty was over? I would think you too would be ticked. If pump failures only happen on 1% of tractors sold then Kioiti is insane for not replacing these broken pumps, in or out of warranty, and keeping their customers happy and quite about a possible future expensive repair.

 

[ritcheyvs]

This is a good example of something being blown out of proportion on the Internet, and people piling on without really thinking. Looking at the spreadsheet there are 12 people with problems and about half have been replaced under warranty, the other outcomes haven't yet been determined. Oh yeah, and it appears to be a problem mostly with tractors from 6 years ago. From what I can gather Kioti sells over 3000 tractors a year and the failure rate for this problem is a small percentage of 1%. Based on the figures of the spreadsheet it happens about once in every 1500 tractors sold over the last 6 years. Looks like a good reason to BUY a Kioti.

I'd like to comment. First, I never looked at the owner-operator forum until after I bought my DK45. Assuming others may do that too, I thought it only right to make one post here so folks can consider this issue before they buy. Second, this seems to effect only certain year models (2005-2008) and I thought that might be useful information for potential Kioti buyers. Third, I have no idea how common this is but KiotiDave's estimate is probably the best we have. I only started collecting this data a couple weeks ago and only based on TBN reports in the Kioti Owner-Operator forum, so the events in the table are a limited sample of the total occurrences.

However, the most important take-away in my opinion is that your Kioti dealer is critical, he may be your only pipeline to Kioti USA. If you don't have a good dealer you will have trouble resolving any problems that may arise with your Kioti tractor. If you have a problem and your dealer won't "go to bat" for you, get out your checkbook.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I don't recall cases where Kioti provided "out-of-warranty" assistance.

I need to correct this statement. A dealer worked with Kioti who agreed to replace btward79's IP for free (part only). Rest of the story: Apparently there are hard feelings between btward and the Kioti dealer who sold him a loader; that dealer would do nothing after the tractor died. btward found another dealer (more distant) who agreed intercede with Kioti USA but this will still cost btward about $700 for labor and transportation, even with a free IP (Kioti USA insisted the dealer do the work). This particular CK30 was built in 2005, sold new in 2008, recently bought from original owner by btward, has only 39 hours on the meter now in 2012, and is about one month out of warranty.

 

[Deerherd]

I agree, it may be being blown out of proportion, but what if it happened to you just after the warranty was over? I would think you too would be ticked. If pump failures only happen on 1% of tractors sold then Kioiti is insane for not replacing these broken pumps, in or out of warranty, and keeping their customers happy and quite about a possible future expensive repair.

Of course I would be ticked and knowing my luck my pump will probably go out tomorrow, but this just emphasizes ritcheyvs point about how important picking a dealer is in your tractor selection.

Look at the posts who are having problems with Kioti. (Or any brand for that matter) A good majority of the time they for whatever reason purchased their tractor from a distant dealer based on price or availability with little regard to service. When a problem crops up the distance creates additional headaches because everything tractor just so happens to be heavy and hard/expensive to move.

So when your distant dealer who made little on the sale gets a call from his "shopping on price" customer, here is the perfect chance to make some of that cash back. He already has you pegged as a tight wad who is now in a bind and oh by the way 100+ miles away. Emails and phone calls are pretty easy to ignore and the chance of you complaining face to face are pretty low. How much money do you really think you will now save over that much closer dealer who quoted you $500 higher on your original purchase?

PICK A DEALER YOU TRUST OVER THE BRAND OF TRACTOR. I have two dealers I deal with, I know everybody's names there and they know mine. You would be surprised what dropping off a dozen doughnuts in the service department can do. When something goes wrong I can call either place, they will come and fix it or pick it up and they always offer a loaner if I need it. They also know if I'm going to buy something I will call them first so they always give me a fair price.

With one dealer I have to be careful because if I call about an attachment there is a good chance that before I get home, he has delivered it to my house to try. He’s crafty and knows most of the time he leaves with a check and empty trailer.

Do I get the absolute best price on everything I buy? No, but I get service second to none and would never even think about calling corporate Kioti, Deere, or any manufacturer I own. They don’t work on my equipment, my dealer does.

 

[EHR]

It might be a small percentage but if it was you, the story would be different.

 

[Alien]

I tremble in fear now.... I have just over 400 hrs on my CK30 and wonder if I should sell it while it is still going. I can't afford large bills. I wasn't on a pension when I bought it. It is now 6 years old.

 

[dennis52]

I tremble in fear now.... I have just over 400 hrs on my CK30 and wonder if I should sell it while it is still going. I can't afford large bills. I wasn't on a pension when I bought it. It is now 6 years old.

Don't tremble, you'll drop that fine tractor you're holding.

 

[MotorSeven]

I'd also like to see the IP failure rate on all the other colors...I'd bet they are similar. Anyway, once you out of warranty, a day , a month or 10 years I don't think any mfg is liable. What has happened in some cases mfg's appease someone that is just out of warranty. That's great for them, but it causes others to feel they too should get their out of warranty issue fixed. Yes, if there is a known issue with a particular IP, then Kioti extend should the warranty.

I just don't know how extensive this particular failure is that Ritchey is tracking. I understand him wanting the buyers to be aware, but dang this is turning into a wild fire on a windy day.

I'm at 900 hrs and I'm an '08. If my pump craters I'm just going to have to cough up the cash and fix it. I'm out of warranty(since June) and would expect nothing from Kioti........ and I'm ok with that.

 

[DK35vince]

I'd also like to see the IP failure rate on all the other colors...I'd bet they are similar. Anyway, once you out of warranty, a day , a month or 10 years I don't think any mfg is liable. What has happened in some cases mfg's appease someone that is just out of warranty. That's great for them, but it causes others to feel they too should get their out of warranty issue fixed. Yes, if there is a known issue with a particular IP, then Kioti extend should the warranty.

Pump failures are usually pretty rare
Other colors do not have pump failures anywhere even close to what we are seeing on the 2006-2008 model Kioti's.
Kioti knows there was a problem with these pumps and thats why they should be standing behind them, even after the warranty is up IMO

 

[Patches]

Friend of mine shut his 2305 JD off and it wouldn't start again. Long story short; John Deere repaired(had pump rebuilt by independent pump service co.) at no cost to owner for the repair, or labor involved in the removal/installation, even though he was 6 mths. out of warranty, although the tractor only had 300 hrs. on the clock. Stuff happens

 

[ritcheyvs]

I tremble in fear now.... I have just over 400 hrs on my CK30 and wonder if I should sell it while it is still going. I can't afford large bills. I wasn't on a pension when I bought it. It is now 6 years old.

THIS IS NOT SUCH A BIG DEAL.

I first took Alien's comment as sarcasm but maybe it is serious. Hey, if you like your tractor and still need/want a tractor, keep it by all means. This is a rare (only 1-2% of a few model years) failure and it's expensive only because we don't know how to get these IPs rebuilt, which should only cost a few hundred bucks. This Zexel PFR IP design is used on most CUTs in this HP range so it's unlikely this is a Kioti-only problem. Also Kioti replacement IPs cost considerably less than the same part through Mahindra or Kubota supply channels. For a potential buyer, I would think knowledge of the reliability and service history of candidate models would only be a good thing and several other posters helped cast this particular issue in proper perspective.

 

[coobie]

I have a question for you folks with pump failures,were you running some type of diesel fuel additive?coobie

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I have a question for you folks with pump failures,were you running some type of diesel fuel additive?coobie

This is a valid question... and maybe something that should be added to that spread sheet you guys are working on. 99% of the time we see an injection pump problem its because there was dirt \ water \ mulch \ {insert contaminate here} in the fuel.

 

[williekioti]

I have a question for you folks with pump failures,were you running some type of diesel fuel additive?coobie

I had the IP failure a few years back. '06 CK30. Yes, PS treatment is EVERY gallon of fuel since taking delivery, seasonally adjusted. Don't recall if I'm on the list or not, I think I replied a while back regarding this issue multiple times. THE issue as reported to me is substandard parts/assembly of a limited production run of certain IPs.......basically some crappy plastic gears on the metering arm. When it occured for me, the tractor's engine raced to the moon, had to kill it with the manual fuel cutoff. Then she wouldn't start again.

Mine occured somewhere between 125-150 hrs IRC, was stihl under warranty, repaired under warranty and was advised by my long time, original dealer that it was a known, but small production run issue with a 3rd party supplier. I was treated fine and overall satisfied with the response. My only gripe was being gouged on pick up/delivery by the new, non-selling dealership that completed the repair (now no longer in the tractor business BTW).....moving sucks sometimes. I know my selling dealer would have treated me better.

Tracking this issue is fine, but I sure wouldn't claim the sky is falling. If my tractor was 6+ yrs/1000+ hrs old I'd expect to be funding the repairs for the duration. Would I try to get something covered if valid research seemed to indicate a OEM known issue? Sure, but it wouldn't influence my quality of life in the meantime. (these last statements just my humble observations, not directed at anyone in particular). And I concur 100% about Dealer choice, much more important than the color of the machine....also IMHO...