Dump trailer angle of the dangle
- Thread starter Artisan
- Start date
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BLAST! Mikes trailer is so darn cool. This was my original
idea that I nixed, but after seeing it, I lust after yee! That
really has a utility to it and I like that...
I just went looking at cylinders and fell upon Bailynets site.
They sure do have a great list to shop from, and learn HERE.
idea that I nixed, but after seeing it, I lust after yee! That
really has a utility to it and I like that...
I just went looking at cylinders and fell upon Bailynets site.
They sure do have a great list to shop from, and learn HERE.
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
That was not my trailer--it is a trailer that is for sale here on a site similar to ebay. It is pretty cool and utilitarian, but to get it you would have to build the trailer higher than I wanted my trailer to be. Also, because the sides and ends fold down it is not as strong as one that is all welded together. It all depends what you like.
The one that I pictured earlier has round balls at each corner and special sockets to fit them. I do not know where you would buy those. However, there is another trailer for sale here also that is similar, but a little bit smaller. Its construction is such that the 2 way movements is achieved with simple elements. I include pictures to aid your fantasy.
One thing to note is that the cylinder has to have a ball or some sort of construction so that it can pivot in 2 directions. My cylinder had this at both ends and I made the sockets to fit on my lathe.
Here is the link to where they are on sale.
Mike
I forgot to add to buy one here costs about $1200.
The one that I pictured earlier has round balls at each corner and special sockets to fit them. I do not know where you would buy those. However, there is another trailer for sale here also that is similar, but a little bit smaller. Its construction is such that the 2 way movements is achieved with simple elements. I include pictures to aid your fantasy.
One thing to note is that the cylinder has to have a ball or some sort of construction so that it can pivot in 2 directions. My cylinder had this at both ends and I made the sockets to fit on my lathe.
Here is the link to where they are on sale.
Mike
I forgot to add to buy one here costs about $1200.
Attachments
I think what you are looking for is here
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc_ang.htm
There are other calculators as well.
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc_ang.htm
There are other calculators as well.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Wow, sorry I am late to the thread artisan. Now where to start...
You mention telescoping cylinder. Those EAT ground clearence. So.....if you can come up with a geometry that is acceptable, then by all means. But Those cylinders arent cheap either. Upwards of a grand each:confused2:
I'll start with this http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/158521-turning-1985-dodge-into-real.html
It covers some of the math involved.
Mike was right about your angle. The effective angle is between the cylinder-bed & bed-frame pivots.
So...in your first example using a 12" cylinder, you angle actually would have been a little better than 12*. But by turning the cylinder around like you did in the second drawing with the 24" cylinder, your effective angle is actually worse than appears.
I actually like the first design better than the second because of the direction the cylinder is pointing, BUT...you have a lot of bed overhanging forward of the lift point once it starts to raise, and would have to be built really strong. If thats not a problem, then yes a 12" cylinder would work. Lets walk through some math now...
A 4"x12" cylinder @ your Bx's 2400psi will make ~30,000lbs of force. Given a 12 degree mounting angle, thats about 6000lbs of vertical force to initiate the dump cycle. Since it looks like the cylinder is mounted to the bed about 2/3rds back from the front, figuring a load in the center, you are further reduced in capacity by 33%, or down to 2 tons of dump force now. Not bad right.
But keep in mind those axles you said look big, those are going to be seeing 15 TONS of force RIGHT in the middle of the span. NOT good.
You mention telescoping cylinder. Those EAT ground clearence. So.....if you can come up with a geometry that is acceptable, then by all means. But Those cylinders arent cheap either. Upwards of a grand each:confused2:
I'll start with this http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/158521-turning-1985-dodge-into-real.html
It covers some of the math involved.
Mike was right about your angle. The effective angle is between the cylinder-bed & bed-frame pivots.
So...in your first example using a 12" cylinder, you angle actually would have been a little better than 12*. But by turning the cylinder around like you did in the second drawing with the 24" cylinder, your effective angle is actually worse than appears.
I actually like the first design better than the second because of the direction the cylinder is pointing, BUT...you have a lot of bed overhanging forward of the lift point once it starts to raise, and would have to be built really strong. If thats not a problem, then yes a 12" cylinder would work. Lets walk through some math now...
A 4"x12" cylinder @ your Bx's 2400psi will make ~30,000lbs of force. Given a 12 degree mounting angle, thats about 6000lbs of vertical force to initiate the dump cycle. Since it looks like the cylinder is mounted to the bed about 2/3rds back from the front, figuring a load in the center, you are further reduced in capacity by 33%, or down to 2 tons of dump force now. Not bad right.
But keep in mind those axles you said look big, those are going to be seeing 15 TONS of force RIGHT in the middle of the span. NOT good.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Part 2:
Is there any way you can locate the cylinders farther forward so that they are pushing around the center of the bed?? And use two of them so you dont need something super-strong to span the width of the bed. (similar to how I did my dump truck in that link). Only you could locate the cylinders on the INSIDE of the frame rail.
By moving farther forward, and compensating with a longer stroke cylinder, you can downsize in cylinder diameter, and share the lower force over two mounts instead of one.
Just a quick example...
If you use 2 .5"x30" cylinders mounted @ 12 degrees and the pusher is smack dab in the middle of an 8' bed (I dont know how long you are actually planning), you will get a dump angle of about 48.5 degrees, and a force of ~4000lbs and each mount seeing about 9500lbs of force.
You can play with different mount angles, length of cylinders, and mounting locations. In the above example, if you move the cylinders rearward a few inches, you will gain angle but loose force. And vice versa if you move them forward. If you lower the base mount (better angle) you will gain more force but not give up much dump angle.
edit: what ARE the dimensions of the trailer going to be??
Is there any way you can locate the cylinders farther forward so that they are pushing around the center of the bed?? And use two of them so you dont need something super-strong to span the width of the bed. (similar to how I did my dump truck in that link). Only you could locate the cylinders on the INSIDE of the frame rail.
By moving farther forward, and compensating with a longer stroke cylinder, you can downsize in cylinder diameter, and share the lower force over two mounts instead of one.
Just a quick example...
If you use 2 .5"x30" cylinders mounted @ 12 degrees and the pusher is smack dab in the middle of an 8' bed (I dont know how long you are actually planning), you will get a dump angle of about 48.5 degrees, and a force of ~4000lbs and each mount seeing about 9500lbs of force.
You can play with different mount angles, length of cylinders, and mounting locations. In the above example, if you move the cylinders rearward a few inches, you will gain angle but loose force. And vice versa if you move them forward. If you lower the base mount (better angle) you will gain more force but not give up much dump angle.
edit: what ARE the dimensions of the trailer going to be??
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
I thought that you would like those orange ones.
The "balls" in the first trailer probably are 50 mm (2 in) but they have holes drilled though in the middle so that they can be pinned in place for dumping which ever way you desire. That is the dimension that the balls on my cylinder are.
If you want the option of being able to dump to the side then you have to locate the cylinder in the middle of the bed and vertical.
I do not know the company name of the trailer, but it is a small Polish metal fabrication shop. It is being sold by several different tractor sales firms. The pivots in the second trailer are pretty simple and easily fabricated.
Mike
The "balls" in the first trailer probably are 50 mm (2 in) but they have holes drilled though in the middle so that they can be pinned in place for dumping which ever way you desire. That is the dimension that the balls on my cylinder are.
If you want the option of being able to dump to the side then you have to locate the cylinder in the middle of the bed and vertical.
I do not know the company name of the trailer, but it is a small Polish metal fabrication shop. It is being sold by several different tractor sales firms. The pivots in the second trailer are pretty simple and easily fabricated.
Mike
