L4600F vs. 5045d for light construction/small farm use

[Verticaltrx]

I'm getting ready to purchase a new tractor for our small farm and agricultural construction business. I'm not new to tractors by any means, but I'm becoming indecisive over this so I'm asking TBN for some insight. The two tractors I've narrowed it down to are as follows:

Kubota L4600F (2wd)
-rear remote valve
-fluid filled tires
-$12,000 cash price

Deere 5045d (2wd)
-rear remote valve
-fluid filled tires
-$14,600 cash price

Both are around 37-38 PTO hp, the Kubota weighs about 3100lbs unballasted and the Deere at 4200lbs.

Uses are as follows:

For the business:
-running a Munro Digger/Driver post driver, weighs 1100lbs, needs about 8gpm hyd flow
-using 3pt hitch forklift, would be about 12-14' lift, around 1000lb capacity (don't have this yet, would be something I'd make/convert)
-using a 6' box blade
-bush hogging, 6 footer
-6' landscape rake
-powering a Bearcat 9540H chipper, about 1300lbs

Around the farm:
-haying (NH 451 sicklebar, small 2-basket tedder, NH 56 rake, NH 268 square baler)
-pulling various trailers, 3000 to 6000lbs
-bush hogging

Another factor to consider is transportation, I have an 8000lb 18' trailer and a 3/4 ton truck. The 5045d would basically max out this setup with fluid filled tires + an implement. The Kubota would be easier to haul, but is a compact tractor vs a full size utility. Price is a factor also since I'd be paying cash, the savings of the Kubota would be appreciated (if it would do the job). I'll probably have some other thoughts I'll add later, but this should give yall enough info to help me start making a decision.

Thanks in advance. :thumbsup:

 

[foreman Etexas]

Well I will go ahead and put my vote in for the JohnDeere.... Size and weight are my reasons...

 

[sixdogs]

The JD is bigger and heavier so that's a plus. My guess is the L4600 will be too light in the front end.
JD looks like the one but maybe take a look at an MX5100 Kubota which is the next step up from the L4600. Beefier front axle and a real bear of a small tractor. You can get the normal deal and I think there's a $1,000 or $2,000 rebate right now and that make the price real attractive.

 

[1fastbob]

Kubota is king of the small tractors. I bought a L4600 and really like it.

 

[bigbull338]

i to am going to throw yje monkey wrench in it.go with the MX5100 itll handle your jobs alot easier.an give the extra power when you need it.

 

[Verticaltrx]

As to the MX4700/5100, in the 2wd version they are basically identical to the L4600, only with a larger hydraulic pump, more hp, syncronized 3rd/4th gear and a few other minor things. Weight and performance differences wouldn't be worth the extra $1000+ IMO. If I was looking at 4wd with a loader, that is when the MX tractors become a much better contender vs the L4600.

I do really like the 5045d, but I'm worried my poor truck and trailer would be over taxed. The 5045d with fluid in the rear tires will weigh around 5500lbs field ready I'd guess. Add the 1100lb post driver, and that is 6600lbs. 6600 + 2600(weight of trailer) = 9200lbs Should I just go with the 5045d and not load the tires until I can afford a bigger trailer/truck? (probably another couple years)

As for the prices I've listed, those are the best I have found locally so far and include any cash rebates. I'm sure Barlows could do a little better on the price of the Kubota and I think one of the mega JD chains might go a little lower on the 5045. I have noticed some "harvest return" 5045d's in Tractorhouse with around 100hrs on them for $13K. Would that be worth looking into or should I be leery of those?

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Just to throw something else in there, here are the tractors I've been using currently:

Business:
-for the post driver I've been using a 2550 Deere (65hp 2wd). It is honestly too big for the job. It can't fit into some tight areas and at nearly 12,000lbs with ballast + post driver it can't be legally hauled without a CDL.
-chipper 5045e or 2550, the 2550 really makes the chipper sing, but the 5045e does ok.
-I occasionally use the 5045e or M9540 to set trusses with a jib crane and would continue to borrow them for that task
-all the other tasks are handled by my B3200 and I'd continue to use it for those

Farming:
-most all the hay work is done with my B3200 and Ford NAA. I use the NAA on the baler, but without live PTO and a fairly fast 1st gear sometimes it is just lacking in power. Occasionally I'll borrow the 5045e or 2550(which is too big for my tiny hay equipment)
-other tasks are handle by the B3200 and NAA

I am fortunate to live within a few miles of my families farm and have access to the 5045e, 2550 and M9540 if I need them, but really need to get my own tractor to do the bulk of the work.

Bottom line: need something about 35-40PTO hp, don't need a loader, 4wd isn't mandatory, $14K budget, Green or Orange and would like to purchase new or like new.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Just to add something else to the equation, what does everyone think of the new Case-IH Farmall 45A (2wd)? Looks like it specs out between the Deere and Kubota, not sure on the pricing.

 

[jenkinsph]

My thoughts would be to sell/trade the trailer for a 10 to 12k 20 ft bumper pull that will handle your new tractor and a few implements. Then pick the tractor of your choice that best fits your needs. Most 3/4 ton trucks can handle the tractor and trailer. I understand how difficult it can be building up equipment, I have built up my equipment one piece at a time, but buy the right one and keep it.

 

[94BULLITT]

Did you look at a MX4700 or MX5100, they would be more comparable to the Deere? Out of the 2 you are considering I do like that the Deere weighs more but the Kubota has a more attractive price. When it comes down to it I would go with what feels the most comfortable and you think will to the best job for you. My neighbor used to have a fencing business, he has a Case 382 2WD with ag tires. He told me that he wishes he would have gotten it in 4WD because he could not back up the a hill like he always needed when he was driving posts. So you may want to consider a 4WD, better to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it. Also since you are not getting a fel are you getting any suitcase weights? What kind of tires were you going with?

 

[Verticaltrx]

Thanks for the responses. As to the trailer, the reason I got an 8K trailer (just bought it last year) is so I could use it for hauling equipment as well as materials and supplies. With a light load my Toyota 4runner can pull it (like a few hundred pounds of lumber, etc). My plan is to add a second larger trailer later, maybe a 14K gooseneck, or go straight for a 15-20 ton pintle hitch trailer and dump truck.

Right now my business is kind of in the stage between needing lighter easy to haul equipment (that which could be hauled with a 3/4ton truck and 8K trailer) and the heavy yellow iron which would need a pintle hitch trailer and a tandem dump. Maybe I need to reassess where things are going and what I really need. My thought was to buy something now that could be used on both the farm and job site to get the most for my money. Maybe I should be looking at less expensive used stuff till I get it figured out. Part of my problem is my needs are fairly diverse and budget is relatively small. Good info though keep it coming.

 

[cowski]

get the john deere.a friend of mine went through that a few years ago. he builds fences commercially across the eastern US.he bought a kubota [cheaper]found out the hydraulics would not run the driver satisfactory.had to add a front pump,that ate up the savings.it also was a little light.went with a deere that size.he likes it a lot more hydraulics were good enough to run the driver the added weight helps running the driver.said it was faster and did not shake apart like the kubota.do not worry about overloading the trailer .you should be able to have a 1000 lb load on the tongue.so 8000 axles plus 1000 tongue is 9000lbs legal.

 

[jenkinsph]

Thanks for the responses. As to the trailer, the reason I got an 8K trailer (just bought it last year) is so I could use it for hauling equipment as well as materials and supplies. With a light load my Toyota 4runner can pull it (like a few hundred pounds of lumber, etc). My plan is to add a second larger trailer later, maybe a 14K gooseneck, or go straight for a 15-20 ton pintle hitch trailer and dump truck.

Right now my business is kind of in the stage between needing lighter easy to haul equipment (that which could be hauled with a 3/4ton truck and 8K trailer) and the heavy yellow iron which would need a pintle hitch trailer and a tandem dump. Maybe I need to reassess where things are going and what I really need. My thought was to buy something now that could be used on both the farm and job site to get the most for my money. Maybe I should be looking at less expensive used stuff till I get it figured out. Part of my problem is my needs are fairly diverse and budget is relatively small. Good info though keep it coming.

I think everyone in business starts out with this same challenge, I went for several years having the 820, phd and a rear blade. Couldn't afford to build up all my tools, trucks and tractors overnight. Took many years to get it where I have an abundant supply of tools, trucks and tractors to work with. It does take alot of long term planning to make it work. That is why I suggested the 12k trailer you can pull it with a good 3/4 ton truck just take it easy. I say this because you don't wan't to buy a tractor that is lighter than you need because of the trailer.

I have built and purchased alot of trailers and have gotten away from GN trailers because of their excessive weight which reduces the payload capacity. I now use a 12k equipment trailer and a 14k dump trailer both bumper pull behind an F550 service truck. Loaded both the truck and trailers are about the same weight, 11,000 for the truck and 11,000 for the trailers, this drives well in the steep mountainous terrain in my locale. That said I occasionally pull either of these trailers with my F250 and it does better than I expected. My 110tlb with Laurin cab weighs in about 8,000 lbs and the F250 handles this too.

Sorry to be so long winded but my point is to really figure out exactly what you need and buy them one at a time if necessary. This is far cheaper than trading up and down imo. In your shoes I would probably buy the right trailer first and recover from this expense, then buy the right tractor then a cab and chassis with flatbed for hauling and implement or other materials. Trying to stay below cdl and pulling a trailer at the same time seems to work out better if you can transfer some of the implement weight to the truck and makes for a safer pull too. For instance a 1 ton dually flatbed can haul a large implement which would provide increased traction and make use of the trucks weight rating and at the same time means you can get by with a lighter trailer weight keeping the sum of the two below 26,000 lb rating.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[deere5105]

I recommend the JD. For the uses you listed it seems more appropriate plus you have already used the 5045E and know what to expect. The engines and build type on these units are simple and should provide years of trouble free service. I sold a JD 5105 two years ago with a loader for $13,500. It was very similar to the 5045D and was in excellent condition. I see them without loaders for $10k pretty regular. If paying cash and not swayed by new unit financing, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a low hour used 5105.

 

[Verticaltrx]

So when thinking about a 'grand plan' for things I've come up with two options:

1. Buy a L4600F or used 40hp Deere 2wd utility now, keep the current trailer, and add a skid steer loader in a year or two (something like a used S150 bobcat, about $15K budget) Total cost about $27K

2. Keep saving, wait for another year or two and buy a MX4700 4wd w/loader or 5045e 4wd w/loader and a 14K trailer, total cost about $30K

 

[cowski]

i would do 1 with the deere.

 

[jenkinsph]

Looked at the Munro post driver setup you referenced this morning, looks like a real time saver. I see Munro specs out 10 gpm for hydraulic flow for optimum results. I also see you have a cad digger and need forks and various other combinations to get the job done. Thought I would ask if you have considered a tlb such as a Deere 110 or Kubota L45 or M59? Seems that a tlb would handle just about everything you need to do and the hydro transmission would be better for positioning over holes too.

I use my 110 with a 72" hd materials bucket, 48" rail pallet forks, 66" rock bucket and a 7' wide frame for scaffold boards on front. On the rear I use the 10' hoe with quick attach buckets, PA30 auger and the 3PH with topntilt for other implements. Seems like a similar rig in Deere or Kubota would work well for what you plan to do and a good used one is within your budget. The tlb's should work well since the Munro digger driver weighs less than the backhoes and the hydraulics are larger too. The boxblade (1250 lbs) works well with the tlb too but I use it more with the 4520 now and leave the hoe on the tlb most of the time.

Here's a couple of pics of mine and my best helper.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Looked at the Munro post driver setup you referenced this morning, looks like a real time saver. I see Munro specs out 10 gpm for hydraulic flow for optimum results. I also see you have a cad digger and need forks and various other combinations to get the job done. Thought I would ask if you have considered a tlb such as a Deere 110 or Kubota L45 or M59? Seems that a tlb would handle just about everything you need to do and the hydro transmission would be better for positioning over holes too.

I use my 110 with a 72" hd materials bucket, 48" rail pallet forks, 66" rock bucket and a 7' wide frame for scaffold boards on front. On the rear I use the 10' hoe with quick attach buckets, PA30 auger and the 3PH with topntilt for other implements. Seems like a similar rig in Deere or Kubota would work well for what you plan to do and a good used one is within your budget. The tlb's should work well since the Munro digger driver weighs less than the backhoes and the hydraulics are larger too. The boxblade (1250 lbs) works well with the tlb too but I use it more with the 4520 now and leave the hoe on the tlb most of the time.

Here's a couple of pics of mine and my best helper.

Thanks for the pics and the input. Ideally, something like a L39/45 or 110 would be what I need. The perceived high cost is what has steered me away thus far. Maybe I need to look a little more in the used market and see what I can find.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Over the past week I've looked at a lot of tractors and it finally came down to a nice used 5203 Deere. After looking at a bunch of new models that were in my price range, I decided to save a little cash and get a good proven model. Below is a list of the tractors I looked at and tested, while none of them really fit my needs, maybe this info can help others:

-New Holland Workmaster 45 4wd, Quoted price $16,500 cash
This was a really nice tractor. It operated smoothly, was very quite, the synchro shuttle worked well, and it came with some nice features for a basic tractor (extendable lower links, rear remote valve, etc.) The price was just a little out of my current budget, but would have been in budget for a 2wd. I decided not to go with it because the price for the 4wd, and the light weight and overall small size of the 2wd.

-Massey Ferguson 2605 4wd, Quoted price $13,500 cash. The first thing that attracted me to this model was the incredible price. $13K for a new 4wd utility tractor is just unheard of. It was a bit smaller than the others at 38hp, but was plenty heavy (4500lbs) and had good 3pt hitch and hydraulic specs. The model I tested had 12hrs on it and was already leaking coolant from one of the gaskets near the front of the block. From my research on TBN almost everyone with these tractors reports some kinds of trouble. The tractor itself worked as it should, nothing fancy with a non-synchro 8x2 trans and dry brakes (which actually worked better than I thought they would.) If it hadn't been for the overall poor quality I probably would have gone with this model.

-Kubota MX4700F (2wd), quoted price $14000 cash. It was everything I expected in a Kubota. Nice layout, smooth controls, good power, excellent quality. At it's heart though it is still a compact tractor and after really looking over what I need to do I decided it was just too light weight.

-Deere 4005, quoted price $18,700 cash. I really wasn't seriously considering this tractor due to the size, but it's been a model I've always liked and since they are being discontinued I thought I'd take a look. It was a nice little tractor, and had all the qualities of the aforementioned Kubota. Again, just too small and light weight (and spendy.)

-Deere 5045d 2wd, Quoted price $14,700 cash (new 2013 tier IV model). Since I've used our 5045e quite a bit I knew what to expect. Well built tractor, no frills, but good quality and smooth controls. The one thing I didn't realize until looking at them up close was that the rear end and transmission is not the same as all the previous 5000 series, but a new slightly lighter design. The 8x4 tranny was perfectly usable without being synchro, and the F/R sync-shuttle was nice. Not thrilled about the new tier 4 stuff, it added a good bit to the cost and apparently makes them even more cold-blooded to start than the previous models.

In the end I went with a used 5203 2wd, paid $11,000. Aside from the wheels being a little faded, it is in like new condition (2007 model.) Everything worked good and with only 300hrs it is truly just broken in. I liked that it had the heavier rear end and 9x3 trans that the other 5000 series had, non turbo, and a little more HP than I was originally looking at. I need to order a set of rear remote valves from Deere, but other than that it should be ready to go to work.

Plans are to maybe upgrade to a bigger trailer in the spring, then add a skid steer or compact TLB when funding allows. Thanks again. :thumbsup:

 

[deere5105]

Over the past week I've looked at a lot of tractors and it finally came down to a nice used 5203 Deere. After looking at a bunch of new models that were in my price range, I decided to save a little cash and get a good proven model. Below is a list of the tractors I looked at and tested, while none of them really fit my needs, maybe this info can help others:

-New Holland Workmaster 45 4wd, Quoted price $16,500 cash
This was a really nice tractor. It operated smoothly, was very quite, the synchro shuttle worked well, and it came with some nice features for a basic tractor (extendable lower links, rear remote valve, etc.) The price was just a little out of my current budget, but would have been in budget for a 2wd. I decided not to go with it because the price for the 4wd, and the light weight and overall small size of the 2wd.

-Massey Ferguson 2605 4wd, Quoted price $13,500 cash. The first thing that attracted me to this model was the incredible price. $13K for a new 4wd utility tractor is just unheard of. It was a bit smaller than the others at 38hp, but was plenty heavy (4500lbs) and had good 3pt hitch and hydraulic specs. The model I tested had 12hrs on it and was already leaking coolant from one of the gaskets near the front of the block. From my research on TBN almost everyone with these tractors reports some kinds of trouble. The tractor itself worked as it should, nothing fancy with a non-synchro 8x2 trans and dry brakes (which actually worked better than I thought they would.) If it hadn't been for the overall poor quality I probably would have gone with this model.

-Kubota MX4700F (2wd), quoted price $14000 cash. It was everything I expected in a Kubota. Nice layout, smooth controls, good power, excellent quality. At it's heart though it is still a compact tractor and after really looking over what I need to do I decided it was just too light weight.

-Deere 4005, quoted price $18,700 cash. I really wasn't seriously considering this tractor due to the size, but it's been a model I've always liked and since they are being discontinued I thought I'd take a look. It was a nice little tractor, and had all the qualities of the aforementioned Kubota. Again, just too small and light weight (and spendy.)

-Deere 5045d 2wd, Quoted price $14,700 cash (new 2013 tier IV model). Since I've used our 5045e quite a bit I knew what to expect. Well built tractor, no frills, but good quality and smooth controls. The one thing I didn't realize until looking at them up close was that the rear end and transmission is not the same as all the previous 5000 series, but a new slightly lighter design. The 8x4 tranny was perfectly usable without being synchro, and the F/R sync-shuttle was nice. Not thrilled about the new tier 4 stuff, it added a good bit to the cost and apparently makes them even more cold-blooded to start than the previous models.

In the end I went with a used 5203 2wd, paid $11,000. Aside from the wheels being a little faded, it is in like new condition (2007 model.) Everything worked good and with only 300hrs it is truly just broken in. I liked that it had the heavier rear end and 9x3 trans that the other 5000 series had, non turbo, and a little more HP than I was originally looking at. I need to order a set of rear remote valves from Deere, but other than that it should be ready to go to work.

Plans are to maybe upgrade to a bigger trailer in the spring, then add a skid steer or compact TLB when funding allows. Thanks again. :thumbsup:

Looks clean. Good luck. I expect years of trouble free use.