Big box stores: Inferior tools?

[murphy1244]

I don't have any on hand, but I do have a story that should help. My brother-in-law bought a Kohler bathroom faucet at a local supply shop. Before he got a chance to install it, he saw the exact same faucet at Home Depot for a cheaper price, so he bought it, with the intension of bringing the first one back to the supply house.

When he installed the HD faucet, he tightened the mounting bolts way too tight. When he stood up to look at it, it was all caved in. I don't know how else to explain it. Anyway it was ruined. He replaced it with the one from the plumbing supply shop, and it was fine.

Being a cheap guy, he figured he would return it to the plumbing supply shop, and get the higher price back. When he tried returning it, the salesman looked at the model number and said sorry, this was purchased at HD. He said trust me, you couldn't do this kind of damage to their faucet, unless you were using an impact gun. An exaggeration, sure, but he knew right away it wasn't his faucet.

True story.

He's more than a cheap guy.

 

[Pops15]

Yes thats true. The point being made here, is that HD and other BB store items DO NOT have the same model number. They are the same, plus an additional couple of letters or numbers, so it can be identified as the cheaper model.

I don't have any currently. 20-some years ago my Dad was shopping for a new TV. He saw a Magnavox he was interested in, in a box store advertisement. He went and looked at it and noted the model number. He then went to a mom & pop store where he had done a lot of business with. He asked for a price on the same model of Magnavox TV. The price was considerably higher. He told the salesman he'd rather buy from him but the box store was something like 30% cheaper. The salesman said let me show you something and turned the display model so they could read the serial number. He made some notes about the serial number and what each digit denoted and told Dad the box store TV was built using lesser quality components and could be identified by having more digits in the serial number. He went on to explain what those extra digits would be. So Dad went back to the box store an sure enough it was just like he had been told. He bought the one from the mom & pop shop. It lasted over 21 years.

 

[smilingreen]

If it has the same part number then it's the same no matter where it was sold. It would be impossible for any company to try and deal with servicing and repair parts if one model number had different parts in it.

I was a field service repair engineer for years. I worked on many different types of equipment. Manufacturers will and do build a product with identical model numbers, but put different parts on or in them for different customers. When you go to order parts for these machines, you have to specify the serial number, not just the model number. The computerized database is how they determine what piece of equipment was built with what parts, even though the model number is the same. There can even be a wide variance of a part with the same part number, depending on what customer they built it for. It really is not difficult at all for a company to deal with the same model number with different parts in it. It happens every day all around the world.

Case in point, I own a John Deere 790 MFWD. It is the 30 HP version as I bought mine back in 2001. About 2004 or so, they changed the engine in it to a 27 HP Diesel. They also made a 2 wheel drive version of the 790 for both the 30 HP and the 27 HP. All of these tractors had the same model number. When I go to get a part for it, you can bet I have to give my parts guy the serial number of the tractor so he can order the correct part. If I send my wife to the dealership and she just tells the parts guy I have a JD 790 and I need a new front left wheel bearing for it and a rear main seal for the engine and she doesn't have the serial number to differentiate which version I have, she will be coming home empty handed with no order placed and I will be unhappy.

I worked on JLG man lifts. Home Depot tool rental would purchase a large number of lifts every year to go to their rental stores. These lifts were built basically the same as any other T350 lift, except Home Depot specified to JLG that they wanted certain modified parts put on these lifts. In looking through the parts catalog, if you didn't specify the serial number along with the model number and just ordered the general part from the catalog, you wouldn't get the correct part. JLG manufactured T350 lifts according to ANSI specs and they also manufactured the same T350 lift that went to nations all over the world. They all had the same model number, but the parts were different depending on where these lifts would go to.

What about automobiles? Same model, but if you buy it in California, it will have California emissions on it. Better tell the parts guy at the parts house your VIN number so he can get you the correct part for the engine.

I say all of this to let you know the key to what version of any equipment you have or what parts are in it is "the serial number".

 

[marimus]

He's more than a cheap guy.

You got that right

 

[Soundguy]

i know on tires you sometimes get tires sold at large discounters that you can't find that exact model of tire elsewhere at regualr tire dealers. for instance.. you could get a specific uniroyal at walmart.. but not anywhere else.

and it was likely a price point tire.. etc.

on tools... with some limited exceptions.. I'd bet most roll out side by side at the same offshore plants. kobalt.. craftsman.. chicago.. etc.. etc...

soundguy

Well if it is true then it is more than just tools.....I had a plumber tell me the plumbing fixtures ..faucets, toilets etc. at the big box stores with the brand names were a cheaper and inferior version than the same brand names at the plumbing supply houses...I did not believe him and when we built our house 8 yrs. ago we bought all Price Phister brand fixtures from Home Depot at about a third of the cost from a plumbing supply house and we have not had one problem in those 8 yrs....I find it hard to believe big companies would compromise their brands that way.

Same thing I have read on threads here that if you buy a JD lawn tractor from a big box store it is inferior to the same JD tractor you might buy at the JD dealer....I would have to see proof JD would do such a thing....

 

[Soundguy]

As a mechanic, that works with tools every day, personally I prefer American Craftsman tools, .

you must mean old ones.

last sears wrench I bought clearly indicated COO heche en el chine

 

[Carl Bert]

you must mean old ones.

last sears wrench I bought clearly indicated COO heche en el chine

Yeah, he definitely must mean the old ones

 

[k0ua]

I was a field service repair engineer for years. I worked on many different types of equipment. Manufacturers will and do build a product with identical model numbers, but put different parts on or in them for different customers. When you go to order parts for these machines, you have to specify the serial number, not just the model number. The computerized database is how they determine what piece of equipment was built with what parts, even though the model number is the same. There can even be a wide variance of a part with the same part number, depending on what customer they built it for. It really is not difficult at all for a company to deal with the same model number with different parts in it. It happens every day all around the world.

Case in point, I own a John Deere 790 MFWD. It is the 30 HP version as I bought mine back in 2001. About 2004 or so, they changed the engine in it to a 27 HP Diesel. They also made a 2 wheel drive version of the 790 for both the 30 HP and the 27 HP. All of these tractors had the same model number. When I go to get a part for it, you can bet I have to give my parts guy the serial number of the tractor so he can order the correct part. If I send my wife to the dealership and she just tells the parts guy I have a JD 790 and I need a new front left wheel bearing for it and a rear main seal for the engine and she doesn't have the serial number to differentiate which version I have, she will be coming home empty handed with no order placed and I will be unhappy.

I worked on JLG man lifts. Home Depot tool rental would purchase a large number of lifts every year to go to their rental stores. These lifts were built basically the same as any other T350 lift, except Home Depot specified to JLG that they wanted certain modified parts put on these lifts. In looking through the parts catalog, if you didn't specify the serial number along with the model number and just ordered the general part from the catalog, you wouldn't get the correct part. JLG manufactured T350 lifts according to ANSI specs and they also manufactured the same T350 lift that went to nations all over the world. They all had the same model number, but the parts were different depending on where these lifts would go to.

What about automobiles? Same model, but if you buy it in California, it will have California emissions on it. Better tell the parts guy at the parts house your VIN number so he can get you the correct part for the engine.

I say all of this to let you know the key to what version of any equipment you have or what parts are in it is "the serial number".

Alright, you have about got me convinced. Maybe there is a difference in some things.. I dunno. but you make a convincing argument.

James K0UA

 

[studor]

If you are big enough you can have your own model number or serial number run on just about anything. Electronics used to be the prime example -- you could only buy some models at one chain and not find them at any others -- that way the consumer cannot find lower prices somewhere else or claim a non working unit was bought there under the money back guarantee. There are lots of reasons for retailers to have there own brands etc that have little to do with actual quality. If you believe that the "special buys" and "advertised specials" are always inferior quality because they come from a big box store that can only provide low quality, then you must also support the theory that anything you pay more for must be better quality -- JMHO

 

[EddieWalker]

Using the argument that a faucet is different from one source then another doesn't have anything to do with tools. I've bought them from the sources mentioned and spoken to the people that work there. The same model tool, is the same tool no matter where you get it with the better quality tools. I also doubt that Ryobi or the other low end brands have better and lesser versions.

Also saying that a brand that made a great tool twenty years ago has anything to do with what they make today isn't based on reality. Brand loyalty is a wonderful thing, but with the way things are done, what was once a great brand just can't be said for what is sold today. Stanley, Black and Decker and Porter Cable are all brands that at one time where very good. Now they are pure junk.

I like Makita and Bosch, but I'm not married to either. I'm liking what Hitachi is doing, but they are still making some junky stuff and some stuff that seems really good.

Reading this has really opened my eyes to how urban legends and wives tales get started.

Eddie