Global Warming?

[IslandTractor]

Animals are already dissolving in Southern Ocean acid
So be it.
Watch video again, can't explain any simpler then he does. He will answer all of your concerns and in reality he is just as right as you are. In fact he makes more sense then you guys.
George Carlin on Global Warming - YouTube

It is absurd to quote George Carlin in support of denier pseudoscience. Carlin was pissed at and made fun of holier than thou environmentalists who he accused of being concerned only about their backyard and pristine nature walks. He correctly pointed out that Mother Earth would survive and outlast the human species too but he was never a denier. For wingnut foghorns to quote Carlin is surely making him chuckle from his grave.

Try this Carlin video on for size to see what his general political views were: http://climate-connections.org/2012/01/20/george-carlin-on-the-1-ahead-of-his-time-again/

Here are a few of George Carlin's quotes on politics. Unfortunately I don't think he ever got directly involved in the AGW debate because we surely would get a few laughs if he had.

"Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? It’s because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time."

"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're f**ked."

"Once you leave the womb, conservatives don't care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."

"The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post 'Thou shalt not steal,' 'Thou shalt not commit adultery,' and 'Thou shalt not lie' in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment."

"If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like everyone else."

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."

"You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans."

 

[mistermcgoo]

Man does it again!
Animals are already dissolving in Southern Ocean acid - environment - 25 November 2012 - New Scientist

Animals are already dissolving in Southern Ocean acid

18:00 25 November 2012 by Michael Marshall
For similar stories, visit the Climate Change Topic Guide

In a small patch of the Southern Ocean, the shells of sea snails are dissolving. The finding is the first evidence that marine life is already suffering as a result of man-made ocean acidification.

"This is actually happening now," says Geraint Tarling of the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge, UK. He and colleagues captured free-swimming sea snails called pteropods from the Southern Ocean in early 2008 and found under an electron microscope that the outer layers of their hard shells bore signs of unusual corrosion.

As well as warming the planet, the carbon dioxide we emit is changing the chemistry of the ocean. CO2 dissolves in water to form carbonic acid, making the water less alkaline. The pH is currently dropping at about 0.1 per century, faster than any time in the last 300 million years.

Lab experiments have shown that organisms with hard shells, such as corals and molluscs, will suffer as a result. To build their shells, corals and molluscs need to take up calcium carbonate from the water, but more carbonic acid means more hydrogen ions in the water. These react with carbonate ions, making them unavailable to form calcium carbonate.
Aragonite shortage

The most vulnerable animals are those, like pteropods, that build their shells entirely from aragonite, a form of calcium carbonate that is very sensitive to extra acidity. By 2050, there will be a severe shortage of aragonite in much of the ocean.

Aragonite is still relatively plentiful in most of the ocean, but Tarling suspected that some regions might already be affected by shortages.

He visited the Southern Ocean near South Georgia where deep water wells up to the surface. This water is naturally low in aragonite, meaning the surface waters it supplies are naturally somewhat low in the mineral although not so much so that it would normally be a problem. Add in the effect of ocean acidification, however, and Tarling found that the mineral was dangerously sparse at the surface.

"It's of concern that they can see it today," says Toby Tyrrell of the National Oceanography Centre in Southampton, UK.

Aragonite-depleted regions are still rare, but they will become widespread by 2050, says Tarling. The polar oceans will change fastest, with the tropics following a few decades after. "These pockets will start to get larger and larger until they meet," he says.

Tyrrell says the Arctic will become undersaturated with respect to aragonite before the Antarctic. Patches of undersaturation have already been seen, for instance off the north coast of Canada in 2008.

The only way to stop ocean acidification is to reduce our CO2 emissions, Tyrrell says. It has been suggested that we could add megatonnes of lime to the ocean to balance the extra acidity. However, Tyrrell says this is "probably not practical" because the amounts involved and thus the costs are enormous.

Journal reference: Nature Geoscience, DOI: 10.1038/ngeo1635

Do you believe every doomsday news report? Geraint Tarling is the same "scientist" claiming the Antarctic was melting down and all other sorts of nonsense. Why do people buy into such speculation? This will be in the ash heap along with the rest of the AGW scare stories.

Here, read this:

Scripps blockbuster: Ocean acidification happens all the time — naturally « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax

There goes another scare campaign.

Until recently we had very little data about real time changes in ocean pH around the world. Finally autonomous sensors placed in a variety of ecosystems �rom tropical to polar, open-ocean to coastal, kelp forest to coral reef give us the information we needed.

It turns out that far from being a stable pH, spots all over the world are constantly changing. One spot in the ocean varied by an astonishing 1.4 pH units regularly. All our human emissions are projected by models to change the worldç—´ oceans by about 0.3 pH units over the next 90 years, and thatç—´ referred to as ç”°atastrophic? yet we now know that fish and some calcifying critters adapt naturally to changes far larger than that every year, sometimes in just a month, and in extreme cases, in just a day.

Data was collected by 15 individual SeaFET sensors in seven types of marine habitats. Four sites were fairly stable (1, which includes the open ocean, and also sites 2,3,4) but most of the rest were highly variable (esp site 15 near Italy and 14 near Mexico) . On a monthly scale the pH varies by 0.024 to 1.430 pH units.

 

[mistermcgoo]

How the game is played to fool the public and indoctrinate kids (kool-aid drinkers are a lost cause):


From Melting Glaciers | A Student's Guide to Global Climate Change | US EPA where they say:

Glaciers all over the world have been melting for at least the last 50 years, and the
rate of melting is speeding up. Many glaciers in Alaska and other parts of the United
States have shrunk dramatically.

50 years? Really? So they post a picture of the Muir Glacier from 1941 and then 2004 for effect.


What they don't show is a picture from 1950:
http://gallery.usgs.gov/images/climate_change/2008_10_6/medium/Molnia - Fig 17B - Field - 1950.jpg


Look at the following map from USGS:



Glacier Bay has been melting for 250 years. Yet, people read scary "scientists say" stories, accept it as fact, and a generation of kids are being lied to in order to brainwash them to give up their freedom for a non-crisis. A similar exercise in propaganda is teaching kids the earth's atmosphere is like a real glass greenhouse, which has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

 

[/pine]

Since we already have information on good authority that there is no such thing as Climate Change....

All I can say to this is put up or shut up...please cite the "authority" you mention...and while you're at it cite anyone that has posted in this entire thread that is "denying" that we are not experiencing some seasonal/climate changes.

...The World Bank recently released a report...

Oh please!... the W.B. is one of the most corrupt, biased organizations on the planet...that have "global power"...

...Like I have said many times, I could care less about Climate Change...

Then why are you expressing your opinion on the subject?

...For the short term the nation'sｴ food supplies will decrease and become more costly...

There is no decrease in food supplies (duh)...what you are expressing is your ignorance of economics and the impact of printing money on credit...it's called inflation, it is basically the fault of those that support an administration that extoll the benefits of living off (actual taxpayer funded) handouts...the blame actually lies on the "candy man" (POTUS) and his misguided "visions"....and his pied piper tactics...

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It is absurd to quote George Carlin...

I suspected there was something we could agree upon...sooner or later...!
Carlin was a measurably talented comedian that achieved most of his fame by reciting verbiage that (to some) was humorous to hear (audibly)...not saying he did not have his comedic inspirations but at the best he was -5 to a +4 as as a comedian IMO...
What really irks me is the fact that Johnny Carson, (whom I truly adored) refused to have one of the most (intellectually) intelligent comedian/celebrity (Cheech Marin) on his show because of his "humor"....yet Carlin (an admitted drug user) was a regular guest...we all have faults and this was one of Carson's IMO.

"Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? It逞ｴ because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time."

"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they?

You should revisit your Alma Mater (Google) and learn who donates more to the needy...geeze!

"You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans."

No the good part is most of those executed have similar mindsets to yours...:laughing:

 

[WaxMan]

It is absurd to quote George Carlin in support of denier pseudoscience. Carlin was pissed at and made fun of holier than thou environmentalists who he accused of being concerned only about their backyard and pristine nature walks. He correctly pointed out that Mother Earth would survive and outlast the human species too but he was never a denier. For wingnut foghorns to quote Carlin is surely making him chuckle from his grave.

Try this Carlin video on for size to see what his general political views were: George Carlin on the 1%: Ahead of His Time Again | Climate Connections

I don't care about Carlin, Could have been anyone in that video. What he said really sums it all up. Better then I heard anyone else do it.
It's not that I don't believe the climate is constantly changing I just don't like the radical ideas I have heard on what the so called fix is. Or think we have that power. Or think we even have to try.
I'd like to hear what should be done in your life to STOP it. What have you done so far? and do you think you did enough? Are you going to wait for others to get started? What are your plans next year to cut your carbon footprint? I would be very interested in your ideas. I don't want to read Scientific studies, blogs, copy and paste stuff etc. I would like you to tell me in your own words what you want me to do to help you save the planet. Please be specific. Make a list if you know the answers.

 

[Gator6x4]

All I can say to this is put up or shut up...please cite the "authority" you mention...and while you're at it cite anyone that has posted in this entire thread that is "denying" that we are not experiencing some seasonal/climate changes.:

Okay. Go in the bathroom and look in the mirror and you will get the answer to your question.

Oh please!... the W.B. is one of the most corrupt, biased organizations on the planet...that have "global power"....

More corrupt in information provided than the "Blaze". Now that would be a reach.

There is no decrease in food supplies (duh)...what you are expressing is your ignorance of economics and the impact of printing money on credit...it's called inflation, it is basically the fault of those that support an administration that extoll the benefits of living off (actual taxpayer funded) handouts...the blame actually lies on the "candy man" (POTUS) and his misguided "visions"....and his pied piper tactics..."....

Nice to know there is no world food shortage at this time, grain a world food staple has not increased in price because of weather problem that limited production. Millions are starving World wide. 28 Countries had "Food" riots in 2008 because of food shortages. The list is long all pointing to weather impacting food production and the adverse effect it is having. Oh, I am sorry you do not believe in reports.


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I suspected there was something we could agree upon...sooner or later...!
Carlin was a measurably talented comedian that achieved most of his fame by reciting verbiage that (to some) was humorous to hear (audibly)...not saying he did not have his comedic inspirations but at the best he was -5 to a +4 as as a comedian IMO...
What really irks me is the fact that Johnny Carson, (whom I truly adored) refused to have one of the most (intellectually) intelligent comedian/celebrity (Cheech Marin) on his show because of his "humor"....yet Carlin (an admitted drug user) was a regular guest...we all have faults and this was one of Carson's IMO.

Do you feel the same way and as supportive about his satirical comedy on religion? This individual was a comedian. His main purpose in life was to seperate you from your money so he could continue to enjoy the life style you were willing to support and provide.

You should revisit your Alma Mater (Google) and learn who donates more to the needy...geeze!:

I always wondered why WELFARE States voted conservative. Now I know it is because conservatives give more.

No the good part is most of those executed have similar mindsets to yours...:laughing:

Now this is news I didn't realize anyone posting here would be so inclined to become involved in something of a capital nature that would result in the death penalty being imposed and executed.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't care about Carlin, Could have been anyone in that video. What he said really sums it all up. Better then I heard anyone else do it.
It's not that I don't believe the climate is constantly changing I just don't like the radical ideas I have heard on what the so called fix is. Or think we have that power. Or think we even have to try.
I'd like to hear what should be done in your life to STOP it. What have you done so far? and do you think you did enough? Are you going to wait for others to get started? What are your plans next year to cut your carbon footprint? I would be very interested in your ideas. I don't want to read Scientific studies, blogs, copy and paste stuff etc. I would like you to tell me in your own words what you want me to do to help you save the planet. Please be specific. Make a list if you know the answers.

You are all over the map here. If you don't care about Carlin why did you post his performance which, contrary to your assertion, did nothing but rant about people trying to save endangered species etc and had nothing to do with climate change.

Now you want to know what we each as individuals want to do to stop AGW? Yeah right. OK, I'll start with trying to get you denier foghorns to start reading scientific studies rather than just blathering on and reposting old blog entries. I have never claimed that I know what to do to best mitigate AGW. I think we need more science to help guide POTENTIAL strategies rather than spend time pretending AGW is a hoax when 95%+ of legitimate climate scientists seem pretty comfortable with that idea. I'd like to see information and data rather than politics drive this debate on AGW. There would be lots of controversy, justifiable, in deciding what to do next but one thing that is not worth doing is standing around claiming all the evil corrupt scientists in the world are engaged in a rotten conspiracy (obviously traceable to Godless commies in the UN or liberal universities) to deprive honest hard working people of their right to drive one ton trucks to the corner store. I'd like to spend the next year talking about what next steps might be, what the evidence is for potential effectiveness and potential downsides of any particular strategy.

I'd also really like to find out the recipe for Cat's joy juice. That boy has some funny sheet to say when he gets tanked up.

 

[/pine]

Okay. Go in the bathroom and look in the mirror and you will get the answer to your question.



More corrupt in information provided than the "Blaze". Now that would be a reach.




Nice to know there is no world food shortage at this time, grain a world food staple has not increased in price because of weather problem that limited production. Millions are starving World wide. 28 Countries had "Food" riots in 2008 because of food shortages. The list is long all pointing to weather impacting food production and the adverse effect it is having. Oh, I am sorry you do not believe in reports.


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Do you feel the same way and as supportive about his satirical comedy on religion? This individual was a comedian. His main purpose in life was to seperate you from your money so he could continue to enjoy the life style you were willing to support and provide.




I always wondered why WELFARE States voted conservative. Now I know it is because conservatives give more.




Now this is news I didn't realize anyone posting here would be so inclined to become involved in something of a capital nature that would result in the death penalty being imposed and executed.

congrats..you and r brown are the first two idiots I have ever deemed so stupid and ignorant that I felt compelled to entirely ignore...geeze!, you two are dumber than stumps...!

 

[toppop52]

I have no idea where anyone gets that conservatives, or Republicans for that matter, don't believe there is climate change! There may be some, as there are pro life democrats, but that doesn't speak for all. I know there is climate change, in my 60 years I've seen small snap shots of it, in my studies I've seen a lot of it, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age, big full blown northern hemisphere ice ages, massive warming and droughts that created the Sahara Desert from a rain forest. Of course there is climate change. What I disagree with is AGW. No "honest", unbiased data proves the recent warming, which by the way appears to have subsided recently, is substantially different than previous events of warming and de-glaciation.

 

[patrick_g]

Climate change evident across Europe, confirming urgent need for adaptation

 

[Gator6x4]

We as human are producing tons of gaseous materials daily that trap and hold heat. This is having an adverse impact on the old rock we live on.

Climate Communication | Heat-Trapping Gases

We in our quest for creature comforts, new and improved things and a desire to live, work and enjoy recreational pursuits in a controlled environment contribute to heat trapping gasses. Some of the gases that are ozone-friendly are strong heat trapping which results in warming effects on mother earth.

Trapping Heat - Graphic - NYTimes.com

 

[Gator6x4]

congrats..you and r brown are the first two idiots I have ever deemed so stupid and ignorant that I felt compelled to entirely ignore...geeze!, you two are dumber than stumps...!

Sorry about the end to our friendship. What caused the riff? Was the part about looking in the bathroom mirror to find the answer to the question you asked, just too much?

 

[IslandTractor]

What I disagree with is AGW. No "honest", unbiased data proves the recent warming, which by the way appears to have subsided recently, is substantially different than previous events of warming and de-glaciation.

You want proof as if we (humans) only move forward when absolute proof is available. Did Colombus have proof or just a preponderance of best available evidence that the earth was round? There are precious few examples in science or engineering where absolute incontrovertible proof is available before people act. Certainly in medicine there is rarely proof, just best available evidence to guide decision making. If I wait until there is absolute proof that a patient has laboratory confirmed sepsis before starting therapy rather than beginning antibiotics when a preponderance of clinical evidence points to the possibility or likelihood of infection, that would be malpractice. I see the climate debate in similar terms. If a preponderance of evidence supports AGW, then act on it and revise as necessary as new data becomes available. With a system as complex as the global climate there is unlikely to ever be a predictive model that is precisely accurate. That doesn't mean we are paralyzed though. If the preponderance of evidence points to CO2 as important in climate change and the human contribution to atmospheric CO2 can be mitigated, then why sit on our hands?

There is always room for reasonable skepticism in scientific endeavors but there is a big difference between reasonable skepticism and obstructionism motivated primarily by political agendas. The "denier" blogs that are so frequently referred to as sources of information by skeptics in this thread are nearly all blatantly political rather than scientific. I have stumbled upon some British skeptic blogs (eg Bishop Hill) which are far more rooted in science and seem to be counterparts to the skeptical science website rather than BWAAHAHA commie conspiracy baloney. However, even Bishop Hill doesn't provide substantive criticism of the IPCC summaries of evidence and focuses, at least based on my first reading, on pointing out rather trivial mistakes in graphs and arithmetic rather than providing a credible alternative hypothesis. Like it's conclusions or not, the IPCC summaries reflect current consensus opinion of those who are best able and prepared to interpret climate data. It seems rather foolish to ignore such a report just because you don't like the consequences.

 

[Egon]

Wonder where the summer water comes from when the Mountain Glaciers melt?

 

[mistermcgoo]

We as human are producing tons of gaseous materials daily that trap and hold heat. This is having an adverse impact on the old rock we live on.

Climate Communication | Heat-Trapping Gases

We in our quest for creature comforts, new and improved things and a desire to live, work and enjoy recreational pursuits in a controlled environment contribute to heat trapping gasses. Some of the gases that are ozone-friendly are strong heat trapping which results in warming effects on mother earth.

Trapping Heat - Graphic - NYTimes.com

The main tenet of AGW "theory" is that the lower and mid-troposphere should warm at a faster rate than the surface with the greatest warming to occur in the tropics.

It is not happening; there is no tropical tropospheric "hot spot" in the atmosphere. Nor is the stratosphere cooling. Gases don't "trap" heat; they absorb and re-emit. Not only is this information available in published literature, the data is as well.


Link to all the sites you want.

 

[mistermcgoo]

You want proof as if we (humans) only move forward when absolute proof is available. Did Colombus have proof or just a preponderance of best available evidence that the earth was round? There are precious few examples in science or engineering where absolute incontrovertible proof is available before people act. Certainly in medicine there is rarely proof, just best available evidence to guide decision making. If I wait until there is absolute proof that a patient has laboratory confirmed sepsis before starting therapy rather than beginning antibiotics when a preponderance of clinical evidence points to the possibility or likelihood of infection, that would be malpractice. I see the climate debate in similar terms. If a preponderance of evidence supports AGW, then act on it and revise as necessary as new data becomes available. With a system as complex as the global climate there is unlikely to ever be a predictive model that is precisely accurate. That doesn't mean we are paralyzed though. If the preponderance of evidence points to CO2 as important in climate change and the human contribution to atmospheric CO2 can be mitigated, then why sit on our hands?

There is always room for reasonable skepticism in scientific endeavors but there is a big difference between reasonable skepticism and obstructionism motivated primarily by political agendas. The "denier" blogs that are so frequently referred to as sources of information by skeptics in this thread are nearly all blatantly political rather than scientific. I have stumbled upon some British skeptic blogs (eg Bishop Hill) which are far more rooted in science and seem to be counterparts to the skeptical science website rather than BWAAHAHA commie conspiracy baloney. However, even Bishop Hill doesn't provide substantive criticism of the IPCC summaries of evidence and focuses, at least based on my first reading, on pointing out rather trivial mistakes in graphs and arithmetic rather than providing a credible alternative hypothesis. Like it's conclusions or not, the IPCC summaries reflect current consensus opinion of those who are best able and prepared to interpret climate data. It seems rather foolish to ignore such a report just because you don't like the consequences.

I can see this is going to be fun.......

Are you prepared?

 

[IslandTractor]

I can see this is going to be fun.......

Are you prepared?

Yes I am prepared for another denier blowhard with minimal credentials to find the critical typo that demolishes AGW. Can't wait.

 

[mistermcgoo]

Yes I am prepared for another denier blowhard with minimal credentials to find the critical typo that demolishes AGW. Can't wait.

The pot calling the kettle black. It doesn't take a consensus (which isn't science) to disprove a hypothesis.

Let's start with one subject at a time. You believe the IPCC is the last word. Are you aware even the IPCC acknowledges clouds are poorly understood? Climate models do not correctly simulate clouds. That being the case, why is it difficult to grasp that changing cloud cover can account for virtually all cooling and warming? What evidence do you have that changing cloud cover has been ruled out as the cause for recent warming?