Plumbing, ditching, sewer lines and pipe inspection analysis

[newbury]

Background:
I've a house I've owned since 1978 and been renting out since 1984.
It's had it's sewer lines "cleaned out" 4 times since 1978.
The first two times, about 1979 and 2000, were when the sewer was REAL slow to drain, the guys complained about roots, probably breaking into the lines. The second two times were this year, when the sewer backed up, with the same root complaints from the plumber. So I decided to get a video pipe insspection to see how bad it was.
Bad news from the plumber who did the cleanings this year. Breaks in 4 places with lots of root intrusion, requireing the entire line being dug up and replaced.
And I'm thinking "backhoe rental and seat time". And he's talking 5 figure expenditure.

Then I fnally get a look at the videos.

The most I can see is some pitting, either in the stuff built up in the lines or perhaps in 2 places in the actual pipe. I've looked at a few videos on you-tube, Trenchless Replacement Specialist Demo Video Part 1.mpg - YouTube, they show cracks, root hairs, broken pipes. They all make my videos look like my pipes have no problem.

So before I start the big dig does anyone have links to more sewer line pipe inspection videos?

I'm thinking a little that the guy who cleaned out the pipes twice this year did a poor job the first time and is looking to also clean my wallet.

 

[Paddy]

newbury,

saw the vid. cool system but I'd think way over kill for a simple line running to the street. I'd just replace the line with PVC. I'd call around to trenching guys and ask if they can cut a trench wide enough for a 4" sewer line. A bucket dug trench is such a mess. Tricky part is to find where at the street your line is located. At the house you should know by looking in the crawspace? In your photo I see a backhoe, why rent?

 

[Rock knocker]

I didn't watch the video because of server issues.

Many times they rooter the side sewer before they make a inspection video, so you have to really know what you are looking at to know whether you have a problem or not. I would not so readily accuse the contractor of doing a poor job earlier this year, it is even more likely that the roots are fast growing, and your side sewer is decomposing or otherwise failing.

The problem with lining, is the you must expose the pipe all the way to the sanitary connection with the city, which will involve digging up the sidewalks and the street. Another alternative is to fully replace the pipe on your property with ABS/PVC, and then connect back to the existing concrete, clay or cast for the final run across the right of way. This would be cheaper because it would allow you to do much of the work, and would also likely get the pipe away from the majority of the roots, which are most commonly found in yards.

If the pipe is failing because of street trees or road pressure, better to spend the money.

 

[sdkubota]

I installed sewer lines for over a decade and have been an professional engineer for 22 years. First, generally any work on a sewer system needs to be done by a licensed sewer contractor...check your local codes. Second, prior to videotaping sewer lines they are normally cleaned (knived) to remove any roots or debree that would restrict the video view and camera travel. Roots are a big problem ad chemicals, copper wire, etc. do not work. Once they are cut they grow back with an vengence and a source of water and nutrients are what they crave. Your line needs to be re-installed including proper installation and grade. Let a licensed contractor do it or you will probably end up doing it again. Third, installation of underground utilities has one of the highest mortality rates from any profession. Working in a ditch is VERY dangerous if you are not familiar to soil types, how it behaves, etc. Is it really worth dying over to save a few bucks that probably really won't be saved?

 

[zzvyb6]

You didn't mention what the line material was. I owned a house in Ann Arbor where the entire section of the city sewers were orangeburg tile (Cardboard wrapped in tar). When you had a break or root intrusion, the cutting knives for cleaning sheared the pipes into missing sections and the lines collapsed.

I just had a barn line repaired by pushing a slightly smaller pipe inside the older one. Worked perfectly.

 

[newbury]

Thanks -
They had cleaned the line about a month earlier. I was primarily asking

So before I start the big dig does anyone have links to more sewer line pipe inspection videos?

so I could compare it to my video.
I know I'd have to have a pro do the repair if it's needed, but looking at my video - which I did not post and is about 300mb - I couldn't see any blockage, breaks, or roots, not even invading root hairs.

 

[sdkubota]

Thanks -
They had cleaned the line about a month earlier. I was primarily asking so I could compare it to my video.
I know I'd have to have a pro do the repair if it's needed, but looking at my video - which I did not post and is about 300mb - I couldn't see any blockage, breaks, or roots, not even invading root hairs.

I have spent hours viewing sewer videos and they will put you to sleep. You probably should be seeing cut roots if that is the problem. What type of pipe is it? Orangeberg hasn't been installed for a long time. Clay pipes are more prone to root intrustion and joints are every 4 or 5 feet. Could you see any problems with the pipe grade itself? Low flow toilets cause a lot of blockages as there isn't enough water to carry the waste. A proper functioning sewer pipe should give you zero trouble providing there is adequate grade and the pipe was installed correctly.

 

[radioman]

many places do require a licensed sewer plumber. There is no way around this legally. I had a problem at my rental house as well, I dug it up myself to see what is really the problem, but had to get a professional in do "do the **** install" as per local code. What I am getting at - with sewer to city hookup- its just as easy/cheap to let them do the work, allthough I have a backhoe and quite capable doing the work myself -- I just could not win with the local zoning code ...:thumbdown:

 

[sdkubota]

If you are over 6' deep it requires a trench box which normally weighs around 10,000 lbs... You could also use trench jacks which aren't cheap. I would hate to count the number of people around my area that have lost their lives to trench cave-ins. I have had a handfull of close calls even using all the OSHA safety equipment.

 

[Qapla]

If your line is presently clear/clean and you have a clean-out facing the street connection and the existing line is NOT metal, you could send a metal fish tape through the line to the city connection and use a line locator (many irrigation guys have them) to locate where your line runs before you dig. There could be a wire running there already if it was required when it was installed - but, as old as the house sounds, probably not.