Coyotes and Deer

[seymojo536]

My guess is he had a good catch pole. Still wouldn't make me comfortable.

Yeah, that can get pretty dicy. One time my cousin and I tried to snare a coon that was in the top of our wire corn crib. It was full of ear corn so there was only a foot of space at the top. Mrs. coon had climbed up and was having herself a feast. Bud and I decided to make a snare out of a broom stick and some bailing wire. Got a ladder and I climed in the access door onto my belly. Put the loop of wire around a very upset momma's neck and yanked. This popped the staple out of the handle and I was left with a stick in my left hand and a 6 foot wire snare in my right hand. So there I was face to face with a very p*ssed off coon and no real means to control her. Much yelling, cussing and hissing ensued. I do believe I could hear my cousin laughing from the ground. Momma coon decided it was time to go, only problem was I was between her and the one way out. I used the broomstick to keep her a fair distance from my face as I tried to dance on my stomach away from the door. We circled the top of the crib and she made a break for the exit. She jumped from the top but only fell a couple of feet before the slack in the wire ran out. The next time we took the 22.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I guess the video on you tube settles the question if coyotes can take down full grown deer . 2 coyotes take down a 6 point buck easily. In SC . If they can so that there's not a lot a pack can't bring down!

 

[N80]

I guess the video on you tube settles the question if coyotes can take down full grown deer . 2 coyotes take down a 6 point buck easily. In SC . If they can so that there's not a lot a pack can't bring down!

The thing we never know in most of these videos is what leads up to the takedown. The videos leave no doubt that coyotes will attack and kill an adult deer. But are these healthy adult deer? A number of the videos are in snow and ice. Is the deer sick or starving? In the ones with bucks, they have horns. Is it deer season? Have they been hit with an arrow or a bullet? In SC many deer are wounded by cars.

Anyway, the evidence surely points to coyotes attacking and killing adult deer and the doe I saw being chased was clearly very healthy. So it seems reasonable to assume that coyotes will chase, and possible catch and kill adult deer. Others have cited pretty heavy fawn tolls by coyotes in some regions. So the question is, will deer predation by an ever increasing coyote population have a significant effect on deer herd size. Obviously this will vary by region, climate, coyote populations and deer populations. But there can be no doubt that coyote populations are growing fast here in the SC piedmont. There are times when we can hear literally dozens of coyotes in a 360 degree arc around out cabin. During calving season you see them all the time, day and night. And the DNR is encouraging pretty much indiscriminate killing of coyotes. (A hunting license is required, but there is no season and they can be hunted at night. A trapping license is required and there is a season for trapping.)

Finally, the question I have to ask myself is do I want to actively hunt and kill coyotes, and or kill them whenever an opportunity arrives. I would say yes, but with the realization that in reality I will have no significant effect on coyote populations or the effect they have on cows, deer, turkeys or foxes. But, it is legal, I enjoy it and it makes me feel better about at least attempting to restore a balance to the property I own and manage. What the right 'balance' is is open to much debate but I have an idea how I want things to be in my neck of the woods and that is what I will strive for.....that is what management is all about, right?

P.S.: Years ago I read an article that coyotes where also integral in decreasing quail populations even thought they do not actually kill and eat that many quail. The thinking was that coyotes kill foxes and foxes are much more effective predators of rodents than coyotes. Then rodent populations increase and rodents prey on quail nests. I make no claims as to the validity of this idea. Quail populations around me seem to be stable or maybe slightly on the rise. I have also read that feral cats and roaming domestic cats take a major toll on quail and song bird populations......I'd be willing to bet that coyotes take a healthy toll on roaming cats...which is a good thing.

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

Yeah, that can get pretty dicy. One time my cousin and I tried to snare a coon that was in the top of our wire corn crib. It was full of ear corn so there was only a foot of space at the top. Mrs. coon had climbed up and was having herself a feast. Bud and I decided to make a snare out of a broom stick and some bailing wire. Got a ladder and I climed in the access door onto my belly. Put the loop of wire around a very upset momma's neck and yanked. This popped the staple out of the handle and I was left with a stick in my left hand and a 6 foot wire snare in my right hand. So there I was face to face with a very p*ssed off coon and no real means to control her. Much yelling, cussing and hissing ensued. I do believe I could hear my cousin laughing from the ground. Momma coon decided it was time to go, only problem was I was between her and the one way out. I used the broomstick to keep her a fair distance from my face as I tried to dance on my stomach away from the door. We circled the top of the crib and she made a break for the exit. She jumped from the top but only fell a couple of feet before the slack in the wire ran out. The next time we took the 22.

LMAO !!!!! Would have loved to see a video of THAT !!

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

The thing we never know in most of these videos is what leads up to the takedown. The videos leave no doubt that coyotes will attack and kill an adult deer. But are these healthy adult deer? A number of the videos are in snow and ice. Is the deer sick or starving? In the ones with bucks, they have horns. Is it deer season? Have they been hit with an arrow or a bullet? In SC many deer are wounded by cars.

Anyway, the evidence surely points to coyotes attacking and killing adult deer and the doe I saw being chased was clearly very healthy. So it seems reasonable to assume that coyotes will chase, and possible catch and kill adult deer. Others have cited pretty heavy fawn tolls by coyotes in some regions. So the question is, will deer predation by an ever increasing coyote population have a significant effect on deer herd size. Obviously this will vary by region, climate, coyote populations and deer populations. But there can be no doubt that coyote populations are growing fast here in the SC piedmont. There are times when we can hear literally dozens of coyotes in a 360 degree arc around out cabin. During calving season you see them all the time, day and night. And the DNR is encouraging pretty much indiscriminate killing of coyotes. (A hunting license is required, but there is no season and they can be hunted at night. A trapping license is required and there is a season for trapping.)

Finally, the question I have to ask myself is do I want to actively hunt and kill coyotes, and or kill them whenever an opportunity arrives. I would say yes, but with the realization that in reality I will have no significant effect on coyote populations or the effect they have on cows, deer, turkeys or foxes. But, it is legal, I enjoy it and it makes me feel better about at least attempting to restore a balance to the property I own and manage. What the right 'balance' is is open to much debate but I have an idea how I want things to be in my neck of the woods and that is what I will strive for.....that is what management is all about, right?

P.S.: Years ago I read an article that coyotes where also integral in decreasing quail populations even thought they do not actually kill and eat that many quail. The thinking was that coyotes kill foxes and foxes are much more effective predators of rodents than coyotes. Then rodent populations increase and rodents prey on quail nests. I make no claims as to the validity of this idea. Quail populations around me seem to be stable or maybe slightly on the rise. I have also read that feral cats and roaming domestic cats take a major toll on quail and song bird populations......I'd be willing to bet that coyotes take a healthy toll on roaming cats...which is a good thing.

I DETEST feral cats, dogs, and feral hogs, basically I detest feral animals in general...I'll eliminate a feral (anything) before I'll shoot a wild critter that is native...if the wild critters become a problem up close and personal I'll take 'em out...otherwise I usually leave 'em alone...on the other hand, feral spotted is feral shot at...

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Would put your face pretty close to those teeth to open the trap, hopefully you have someone you trust on the catch pole.

 

[dmccarty]

The thing we never know in most of these videos is what leads up to the takedown. The videos leave no doubt that coyotes will attack and kill an adult deer. But are these healthy adult deer? A number of the videos are in snow and ice. Is the deer sick or starving? In the ones with bucks, they have horns. Is it deer season? Have they been hit with an arrow or a bullet? In SC many deer are wounded by cars....

The camera was placed to pick up wildlife. I would assume the placement was because the camera setter up'er knew animals would be seen by the camera. Does that mean the deer was baited in and/or, on a well known trail used by the deer that allowed the coyotes to ambush the buck?

I do think that the coyotes can take down a deer. But the question is how often can they do so and can they run down a healthy adult at will? Not sure the video proves much except that coyotes can kill deer which I don't think anyone would doubt.

I personally don't care about the coyotes eating the deer. We have too many of the danged deer as it is. However, I don't like animals that are a threat to the family or our animals around the house.

Later,
Dan

 

[Jesse masterson]

Coyotes will literally run a deer to death , it's not true that a coyote can catch a healthy deer unless ambush which they will do , however there stamina is so much better than other annals that unless the terrain interrupts the chase , as in gullys, ditches etc, which is advantage deer, they will set a pace and won't stop, but usualy that's on a need to basis, as long as there's ground hogs mice , rabbits, etc, why go to the bother. But if those items are scarce they can decimate deer.also as far as quail a warden friend of mine said turkey populations is what destroys quail. They bust up there nests and destroy there eggs.

 

[N80]

I personally don't care about the coyotes eating the deer. We have too many of the danged deer as it is. However, I don't like animals that are a threat to the family or our animals around the house.

Later,
Dan

It is my impression that our deer population here is relatively high and stable despite coyotes being here in large numbers for at least 15-20 years. But as you say, it is the cumulative threat that puts the coyotes in such bad light. Deer, foxes, turkeys, pets, cows, sheep, chickens, people(?!?). Our own deep sort of fear of wild dog-like animals doesn't help. The fact that they can be fun to hunt is another thing not in their favor. And when you can give a hunter, like me, a reason to deeply dislike an animal species and maybe even valid reasons for killing them, well, as they say....open season. I would like to think that we can make a difference. We probably can't. And even if it were possible to erradicate them I don't think I would be for it. I just feel they need to fill a smaller niche than they currently occupy in my local.

I don't even like the idea of leg traps so I won't resort to that. Found a couple that a poacher of sorts put on my place "by accident". Chunked them in the lake. Dangerous to my dog, my brother-in-laws calves, etc. and I find them quite inhumane. I'm not necessarily against someone else doing it if it is legal, but just not on my place.

 

[Tororider]

I read an article in Field and Stream a couple years back about coyote hunting. Talked about how a lot of bored deer hunters take it up because it is more challenging and thrilling. You are in fact hunting a predator instead of the prey. It was an interesting article.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

So...has anyone tried coyote meat?? I have eaten dog a couple times and liked it, I would think coyote would be as good.

 

[N80]

I am gastronomically adventuresome. I'll try most anything except brains (having cared for a CJD patient before). But I'd have to be mighty bored or mighty hungry to eat a dog or a coyote. My beloved and noble Labrador smells like a garbage dump in Georgia........in August. However, the male coyote I killed the other day did not smell bad at all....a hint of muskiness but nothing really awful.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

The Filipinos in town here marinade and shiskabob dog and it is great, I try not to think about whose pup it was, of course that is is the same folks that eat balut soo.......

How bout it one of you coyote hunters wanna try it and let us know?

 

[N80]

Not sure what the infectious disease risk is for eating coyote. Distemper is a very common problem for coyotes but do not know if it is a pathogen for humans. Fortunately most communicable diseases are killed with adequate cooking and/or sufficient freezing.....except prions.

But just think of the pride and sense of accomplishment one would feel if he was the first one to discover that coyote was as good as pork! I suspect he would actually find that coyote was stringy, chewy and has just a hint of rotten road kill.

 

[J35]

It's been my experience that the only thing that will eat a coyote is maggot's.

When the trap line is working I get a good size carcass pile going back in the sticks, the bobcat's go first then the fox and the coyotes are left to the maggot's. The buzzards, eagles and hawks and skunk's leave them to rot.

When I was a teenager I kept three airedale x greyhound's to kill coyotes with.

I would bone out the coyotes that the dogs killed and boil the meat with cracked corn and wheat bran and feed that back to the dogs. They would have nothing to do with the raw meat.

good eating-- J

 

[Fi-Q]

A example of how coyote control can benefit deer is what happened on the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec, just north of the Maine border. In 1986, had a healthy herd of about 15,000 whitetails, and a low coyote population.

However, after several consecutive harsh winters — and extensive clear-cutting that eliminated traditional yarding areas — coyotes got the upper hand and wreaked havoc on the deer population.

By 1991, researchers estimated that only 500 deer remained on the peninsula. To save the herd, the province banned deer hunting, implemented strict logging regulations and implemented an aggressive coyote snaring program.

According to Noonan, 80 trappers were trained to snare coyotes, and they were instructed to focus their efforts on 80 percent of the remaining deer yards.

The plan worked. In just three years, the trappers caught 1,500 coyotes. Deer numbers rebounded, and by 1999, the peninsula had a population of more than 2,000 whitetails.

However, the coyote problem didn’t end there. When the snaring program was stopped for two years, the coyote population rebounded, and the deer population again decreased.

As a result, the peninsula instituted a subsidized trapping program that is still used today.

 

[cqaigy2]

A example of how coyote control can benefit deer is what happened on the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec, just north of the Maine border. In 1986, had a healthy herd of about 15,000 whitetails, and a low coyote population.

However, after several consecutive harsh winters — and extensive clear-cutting that eliminated traditional yarding areas — coyotes got the upper hand and wreaked havoc on the deer population.

By 1991, researchers estimated that only 500 deer remained on the peninsula. To save the herd, the province banned deer hunting, implemented strict logging regulations and implemented an aggressive coyote snaring program.

According to Noonan, 80 trappers were trained to snare coyotes, and they were instructed to focus their efforts on 80 percent of the remaining deer yards.

The plan worked. In just three years, the trappers caught 1,500 coyotes. Deer numbers rebounded, and by 1999, the peninsula had a population of more than 2,000 whitetails.

However, the coyote problem didn’t end there. When the snaring program was stopped for two years, the coyote population rebounded, and the deer population again decreased.

As a result, the peninsula instituted a subsidized trapping program that is still used today.

So if i understand it correctly, this low population of coyotes was able to deplete the depleted deer population. Maybe if they had a season on clear cutters?

 

[N80]

Maybe if they had a season on clear cutters?

I agree:thumbsup:....but that isn't the point. The point is that once the damage was done with bad winters, clear cutting and what sounds to be a HUGELY out of control coyote population (there were 500 deer left and yet they trapped 1,500 coyote), the only thing that could be managed in the short term was coyotes. And when the coyotes were managed the deer population was able to rebound but only to one seventh of its previous level. Then, as is almost always the case with predators, once the pressure is removed, the coyotes rebounded immediately and deer populations declined.

The real point is that it is possible, in some places and in certain conditions to manage coyote populations in such a way as to have a positive impact on deer populations.

I do not think that hunting them with guns could achieve this level of control unless every deer hunter was more focused on coyotes than deer....and even then I don't know.....

 

[westcliffe01]

I think that coyotes have to learn how to take down bigger game. Once they have mastered that, why should they go to the trouble of catching the smaller critters when 1 kill can probably keep them satisfied for over a week ? Then the population of the smaller rodents explodes too. If they wipe out the herd of the bigger critters, then they start back down the food chain of the smaller ones. So there is no immediate population "bust" when the deer numbers are down. Thats assuming there are no livestock around, else you are in trouble.

It seems that the only programs that have a massive impact on predator populations is shooting them from the air. They cannot be exterminated, but you can reduce the populations by 80-90% and make them super skittish about even showing themselves during the day. Using traps and snares is only viable when there are not other larger critters to get caught in the snares. The MI trapping regulations are very restrictive on snaring since the snare has to be weak enough to be broken if it were to catch a larger animal like a deer and at the same time it is not permitted to close too tight to choke the target species. Based on the rules, snares are one time use devices. And they have to be checked daily, else are illegal.

 

[dmccarty]

Last night I heard coyotes very near the house. At least two of them and they were chasing something. That something had to be a deer. There were running in an area in circles in a space that was about 1,000 feet long. I heard them and came back in the house to ask the wife if she had hear the coyotes when she was outside with the chickens. She said yes. I put on a coat, grabbed a pistol and a mag light and my oldest and I went to a trail intersection to wait to see if the show would pass us. The wife heard the coyotes to our SSW. I heard them circling down at the road which is to the SSE but the time we got back outside the chase was almost directly south of us and heading west. We got to the trail intersection and waited but the chase moved way to the west and we could just barely hear it. There are some thick pine stands to the west that have been thinned and have trails. From what I can hear it sounded like the chase followed our trails, hit the property line, maybe followed a property line that is somewhat cleared and then hit the pine stand trails. There is a road about a mile west and I think the chase crossed that road and went into some heavier woods.

I would guess the part of the chase we heard took place over an hour.

Later,
Dan