How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ?

[OldMcDonald]

Smiley, I agree with most of what you posted, except that in WWII Portugal was truly neutral in that it traded with both sides and many people from occupied countries passed through Portugal on their way to freedom. The film Casablanca has that as its story line. No doubt you are already aware that the small countries of Ireland, Sweden and Switzerland also remained neutral. Portugal did lean slightly toward the Allies, about 10,000 troops fighting under British colours. Spain actively supported Germany, supplying manpower and goods, yet had troops stationed on its border to prevent a German invasion. What are small countries to do when they are in the way of powerful armies? Fight, join them, or try to maintain neutrality? In the scenario some on this thread are envisaging with a sudden breakdown of civilisation as we know it they would be themselves in the same position as Portugal was. They will then have to make the decision whether or not to fight anybody that approaches their domain.

I specifically referred to post WWII, and if you had read my post in full you would have seen that I have the greatest respect for US servicemen. I posted what I did because some posters have been attacking others throughout the thread and this behaviour is seen, like it or not, as the US way by many people. It may not be true but it is a perception that I have come across very frequently, particularly since the first Gulf War.

 

[charlz]

I didn't read all the posts ( great topic for dialogue) but I think a lot of people are confusing self-suffiency with preparedness. Having a diesel generator with a 1000 gallon tank makes one prepared until the diesel runs out, not self sufficient unless you refine your own diesel from your own oil well. Using the logic of a well stocked diesel tank or pantry makes a person in NY self-sufficient.....as long as they have a week's worth of food and water. I think most arguments in this thread are arguing about how preparded one is rather than how self sufficient they are.

That is a good point. I have wondered about that myself when watching 'Doomsday Preppers' or the like. The guy has enough food for X people to live Y years... and I am wondering "So what do you do then?"

I have experimented for a few years growing food in bulk, even that part is non-trivial. The next steps for something like grain or dried beans/peas are not easily done by hand; I know I have done it. A guy might have a grain mill but does he have a thresher and a winnowing mill? How about a scythe or even just a sickle? Sure those steps can be done totally by hand... but if you are trying to process hundreds of pounds before the weather gets nasty or whatever it is not so easily done.

It would seem a lot of the 'preppers' are just trying to last until things get back to 'normal' and are not focused on being self-sufficient long term.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

That is a good point. I have wondered about that myself when watching 'Doomsday Preppers' or the like. The guy has enough food for X people to live Y years... and I am wondering "So what do you do then?"

I have experimented for a few years growing food in bulk, even that part is non-trivial. The next steps for something like grain or dried beans/peas are not easily done by hand; I know I have done it. A guy might have a grain mill but does he have a thresher and a winnowing mill? How about a scythe or even just a sickle? Sure those steps can be done totally by hand... but if you are trying to process hundreds of pounds before the weather gets nasty or whatever it is not so easily done.

It would seem a lot of the 'preppers' are just trying to last until things get back to 'normal' and are not focused on being self-sufficient long term.

Well , I think you have to be a prepper to be able to get to self sufficiency ,one has to follow the other but to what extent ? Now I myself have a 5-6 year plan to become completely self sufficient And I plan on doing 99% of the physical labor myself :dance1: and thats not easy ,I will drill my own well ,build my own windmill and power my shop with a water wheel , you have to devise ways to lift heavy beams ,move heavy equipment , drag logs ,move heavy building materials and do everything in such a manner as to not kill yourself in the process , These are things that someone with small children would have a hard time with and if you had teenagers you better live close to town or they will drive you nuts !:laughing: all these things can be done but you have to want to live that life style or your just kidding yourself that it won't be very difficult at times ! I truly believe this all can be accomplished as others have done it way before I and they are good at it , I have no desire to eat in restaurants anymore , I like knowing where my food comes from and who touched it ! I was raised by my father to be able to build anything I have not hired 1 person for any type of work be it electrical/plumbing /drywall/framing /concrete /tree work/auto mechanics /small engine repair /sewing /gardening /or raising my animals for more than 40 years I have absolutely no interest in professional sports ever and think that they are a total waste of time and money and people would better serve themselves learning another trade rather than waste time and money cheering for a team on tv and if you like sports to each his own , But I have been to disaster areas right after the storm passed and I have seen with my own eyes how fast peoples priorities change and how things go from bad to worse in a heartbeat ,if they had only prepared even a little they would have had a much easier time rebuilding but to have the mindset that someone is rushing to come save you would put you in the same bucket as the people in New Jersey waiting for fema to actually do something , When hurricane Andrew hit we set up in homestead and the national guard showed up and built a 10 tall fence around our area ,they brought in truckloads of food and water and fed us 5,000 calories a day meanwhile the armed guards held all the thirsty and hungry survivors outside the gate with m-16's . the government does come in and take control but they call the shots and feeding you is last on the list Just ask the people from Katrina ! so do your best to prepare for the worst and maybe we can all make it in the end !:drink: So how far are you willing to go to provide and protect your family and property before /during /and after a natural disaster /or man made ?

 

[Car Doc]

Imo the real preppers among us dont tell anyone anything if they want to hang on to it when things go bad. my .002

I do enjoy watching the tv shows to get ideas but those guys are just chest pounding and posing for the camera I think anyway.

To me thats not my idea of getting ready for whatever comes my way I dont have millions to spend on it either. We will be staying put where we are and making due the best we can.

fact after the show I watched last nite I am done with the doomsday prepper show all together what a joke.

 

[Combustix]

fact after the show I watched last nite I am done with the doomsday prepper show all together what a joke.

Haha you must have watched the two guys from Houston. I think most of those people really have no clue. Everybody is digging in or bugging out, but are really not self sufficient

 

[DKCDKC]

The billionaire security show on TV I happened to catch last night had some rich folks spending upwards of $10 million for a bunker that would keep their family safe for some ten years - through nuclear, chemical or bio disasters... Or natural disasters. However the guy who built the bunkers noted that if society collapses, the family would have a hard time surviving after the 10 years.

I have books detailing life a few centuries ago. One can live without many things. But you need one thing to survive... Other people. No one person can be self-sufficient forever. Ultimately you need a society - primitive, perhaps, but a society none-the-less. Sooner or later you run out of food supplies, bullets, tools, fuel, etc. You may grow your own food, but you need things like salt, iron tools, pots and pans, and the like. You need others to survive long term.

 

[Rob-D]

:confused3:

Post#509, go read it for yourself.


Originally Posted by Rob-D

The criteria to voting is that one is a citizen. Corporations do not require citizenship to be a member of said corporation. Allowing a corporation to vote enables those not citizens to have a voice in our country's affairs.

The right to argue a case as a group is a law we afford the group that still doesn't make the group a citizen.


1: an inhabitant of a city or town; especially: one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman

2a: a member of a state

b: a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it

3: a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state


Tomorrow I start a US corporation filled with Middle East terrorists. Should that corporation have the right to vote in the affairs of this country?

"Can we take this thread back to the topic and not social government ? "
Grumpy

 

[Rob-D]

I have books detailing life a few centuries ago. One can live without many things. But you need one thing to survive... Other people. No one person can be self-sufficient forever. Ultimately you need a society - primitive, perhaps, but a society none-the-less. Sooner or later you run out of food supplies, bullets, tools, fuel, etc. You may grow your own food, but you need things like salt, iron tools, pots and pans, and the like. You need others to survive long term.

Absolutely!

 

[Soundguy]

reminds me of the guy that built a huge barricaded living quarters out of cargo containers. has like 10ys of food there and all.

that thing is a huge target.

'jericho-ing' imho is gonna be a hard deal... a group could souround you.. or use explosives on you...

IMHO.. best bet is to look inconspicous.. look looted out and burned.

maybee have a rural acerage in the sticks with a container burried.. and have it inhospitable for squatters.. etc..

Imo the real preppers among us dont tell anyone anything if they want to hang on to it when things go bad. my .002

I do enjoy watching the tv shows to get ideas but those guys are just chest pounding and posing for the camera I think anyway.

To me thats not my idea of getting ready for whatever comes my way I dont have millions to spend on it either. We will be staying put where we are and making due the best we can.

fact after the show I watched last nite I am done with the doomsday prepper show all together what a joke.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I have books detailing life a few centuries ago. One can live without many things. But you need one thing to survive... Other people. No one person can be self-sufficient forever. Ultimately you need a society - primitive, perhaps, but a society none-the-less. Sooner or later you run out of food supplies, bullets, tools, fuel, etc. You may grow your own food, but you need things like salt, iron tools, pots and pans, and the like. You need others to survive long term.

And you need a certain minimum population size to insure that knowledge gets passed on to the next generation. I've read that it's rare that societies of fewer than 100,000 individuals are able to keep the knowledge of how to make fire. Jared Diamond has a good article on the subject of cultural losses here: Edge: Jared Diamond Talk [page 5]

A sampling:

Tasmania lies 130 miles southeast of Australia. When it was first visited by Europeans in 1642, Tasmania was occupied by 4,000 hunter/gatherers related to mainland Australians, but with the simplest technology of any recent people on Earth. Unlike mainland Aboriginal Australians, Tasmanians couldn't start a fire; they had no boomerangs, spear throwers, or shields; they had no bone tools, no specialized stone tools, and no compound tools like an axe head mounted on a handle; they couldn't cut down a tree or hollow out a canoe; they lacked sewing to make sewn clothing, despite Tasmania's cold winter climate with snow; and, incredibly, though they lived mostly on the sea coast, the Tasmanians didn't catch or eat fish.

Astonishingly, the archaeological record demonstrates something further: Tasmanians actually abandoned some technologies that they brought with them from Australia and that persisted on the Australian mainland. For example, bone tools and the practice of fishing were both present in Tasmania at the time that the land bridge was severed, and both disappeared from Tasmania by around 1500 B.C.