Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders

[MF1433V]

While I haven't read this entire thread. I had to stop here because this just isn't true. News paper here tried to do that. The Sheriff denied the paper that info.& if the paper thought it should be made public to take him to court & let a judge tell him it's public

You have a Sheriff to be proud of for sure.

 

[k0ua]

I appreciate the perceived and probably real anti gun bias in many of the Newtown reports. It isn't exactly shocking and many other articles have been more balanced with significant discussion of the mental health angle. Recall that the mental health information dribbled out over the week after the shooting while the guns were evident immediately. Also, there was a tendency in papers I read to have multiple stories some focusing on the community, some on the victims, some on guns and some on mental health. If you look just at one of the stories in a paper it might seem biased but looking at overall coverage in the past ten days I've seen articles covering the issues from many different perspectives.

The NRA contribution however was laughable. Refusing any comment for a week and then issuing a statement limited to discussing putting volunteers with guns into schools??? Far more biased and lame response than what we saw from the press IMO.

By the way, volunteers with guns in our schools??? Really? Would you want to sign off on a plan to choose maybe five volunteers for each of maybe ten thousand schools and believe you are not going to get some nut cases with guns in the mix? We don't want to trade one problem for another. Man, I couldn't even trust ten thousand priest volunteers in schools. And where is the evidence that volunteers with guns make a difference? I read somewhere that there was an armed policeman in Columbine at the time of the shooting there. Not positive about that but if it is true why didn't NRA address that fact? The NRA gave us a half baked whacko proposal meant more as a smoke screen and diversionary tactic than a serious response to the problem.

There was an armed security officer at Columbine he was a Deputy Sheriff. He was outside the school observing students at the "smokers pit" in his car. He returned to the school grounds, and exchanged gunfire with one of the shooters.

At 11:22, the custodian called Deputy Gardner on the school radio, requesting assistance in the Senior parking lot. The only paved route took him around the school to the east and south on Pierce Street, where, at 11:23 he heard on his police radio that a female was down, struck by a car, he assumed. He turned on his lights and siren. While exiting his patrol car in the Senior lot at 11:24, he heard another call on the school radio, "Neil, there's a shooter in the school". Harris, at the West Entrance, immediately fired his rifle at Gardner, who was sixty yards away. Gardner returned fire with his service pistol.

Thus, five minutes after the shooting started, and two minutes after the first radio call, Gardner was engaged in a gun fight with the student shooters. There were already two dead and ten wounded. Harris fired ten shots and Gardner fired four, before Harris ducked back into the building. No one was hit. Gardner reported on his police radio, "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me!

Note the time , 11:22 the shooting starts. The two killers committed suicide at 12:08. Law enforcement started to enter the building an hour later. and a little over 2 hours later had made it to the Library. Just remember when seconds count, the police are just minutes (or hours as in this case) away. I was a law enforcement officer. And this account disgusts me.

James K0UA

By noon, SWAT teams were stationed outside the school, and ambulances started taking the wounded to local hospitals. Meanwhile, families of students and staff were asked to gather at nearby Leawood Elementary School to await information.
A call for additional ammunition for police officers in case of a shootout came at 12:20 p.m. The killers had ceased shooting just minutes earlier. Authorities reported pipe bombs by 1:00 p.m., and two SWAT teams entered the school at 1:09 p.m., moving from classroom to classroom, discovering hidden students and faculty. All students, teachers, and school employees were taken away, questioned, and offered medical care in small holding areas before being bussed to meet with their family members at Leawood Elementary. Officials found the bodies in the library by 3:30 p.m

 

[Blast Chamber]

The NRA contribution however was laughable. Refusing any comment for a week and then issuing a statement limited to discussing putting volunteers with guns into schools??? Far more biased and lame response than what we saw from the press IMO.

By the way, volunteers with guns in our schools??? Really? Would you want to sign off on a plan to choose maybe five volunteers for each of maybe ten thousand schools and believe you are not going to get some nut cases with guns in the mix? We don't want to trade one problem for another. Man, I couldn't even trust ten thousand priest volunteers in schools. And where is the evidence that volunteers with guns make a difference? I read somewhere that there was an armed policeman in Columbine at the time of the shooting there. Not positive about that but if it is true why didn't NRA address that fact? The NRA gave us a half baked whacko proposal meant more as a smoke screen and diversionary tactic than a serious response to the problem.

I watched the entire NRA press conference and did not hear them use the word "volunteer". To be sure I just went and checked the transcript and they did not say anything about armed volunteers in schools. They did question why there is no funding for putting paid police officers in schools.

quote: With all the foreign aid the United States does, with all the money in the federal budget, can't we afford to put a police officer in every single school?

Check for yourself.....

Remarks from the NRA press conference on Sandy Hook school shooting, delivered on Dec. 21, 2012 (Transcript) - Washington Post

 

[kenmac]

I appreciate the perceived and probably real anti gun bias in many of the Newtown reports. It isn't exactly shocking and many other articles have been more balanced with significant discussion of the mental health angle. Recall that the mental health information dribbled out over the week after the shooting while the guns were evident immediately. Also, there was a tendency in papers I read to have multiple stories some focusing on the community, some on the victims, some on guns and some on mental health. If you look just at one of the stories in a paper it might seem biased but looking at overall coverage in the past ten days I've seen articles covering the issues from many different perspectives.

The NRA contribution however was laughable. Refusing any comment for a week and then issuing a statement limited to discussing putting volunteers with guns into schools??? Far more biased and lame response than what we saw from the press IMO.

By the way, volunteers with guns in our schools??? Really? Would you want to sign off on a plan to choose maybe five volunteers for each of maybe ten thousand schools and believe you are not going to get some nut cases with guns in the mix? We don't want to trade one problem for another. Man, I couldn't even trust ten thousand priest volunteers in schools. And where is the evidence that volunteers with guns make a difference? I read somewhere that there was an armed policeman in Columbine at the time of the shooting there. Not positive about that but if it is true why didn't NRA address that fact? The NRA gave us a half baked whacko proposal meant more as a smoke screen and diversionary tactic than a serious response to the problem.

Gotta love the gun control LIBS. Volunteers with guns in the schools:laughing:

 

[k0ua]

When Island hears the letters NRA, his eyes glaze over and his ears close down.. so you have to cut him some slack there.

 

[kenmac]

I watched the entire NRA press conference and did not hear them use the word "volunteer". To be sure I just went and checked the transcript and they did not say anything about armed volunteers in schools. They did question why there is no funding for putting paid police officers in schools.

quote: With all the foreign aid the United States does, with all the money in the federal budget, can't we afford to put a police officer in every single school?

Check for yourself.....

Remarks from the NRA press conference on Sandy Hook school shooting, delivered on Dec. 21, 2012 (Transcript) - Washington Post

The gun control LIBS will twist things around to say what they want.They don't have guns & don't want You or anyone elst to be able to have guns. These people need to move to a country that believes in no guns for anyone instead, of trying to take away rights of others . If I didn't have guns. I wouldn't try to trke away the rights of others that want or own guns. But with these gun LIBS. they don't want you to have what they don't like GUNS !

 

[kenmac]

When Island hears the letters NRA, his eyes glaze over and his ears close down.. so you have to cut him some slack there.

If he'll give his address I 'll gladly send him a subscription of the American Rifleman.:laughing: They have the XD-S as the featured gun:thumbsup:

 

[daugen]

I get more enjoyment out of .22 rimfire and it is dirt cheap to shoot. A 50 round clip on a Ruger 10/22 is a hoot. So is long range plinking with a nice single shot .22 with peep sights or a scope.

This brings back good memories, likely to a great many of us. I grew up on a 116 acre farm, much of which was deep woods, on the PA side of the Delaware River. We had about five logging trails back into various parts of the woods, to
access the seven cord of wood we cut each year. And at the end of one of those trails was the dump. Now dumps aren't legal any more for many good reasons, but this dump had been there a long, long time. Nothing nasty, but some old porcelain appliances that were fun to blast away at, and of course, how many glass bottles could you line up in a row and get them all with one shot? Single shot 22 back then. And we learned to clean it every time we used it. Loved the smell of the gun cleaning oil.

But give a kid a box or two of 22 shorts, and man what a way to spend an afternoon.

And now it gets a little unusual. I'm a life long pacifist. I will try to do everything possible before shooting or injuring another human being, even if I put myself at more risk doing so, within reason.
But I will defend myself, and my family. And if the boogeymen from Mars show up, ok, then too. My wife's father gave us/her a 12 gauge pump which is in the closet, with shells nearby, and also in that closet
is a really nice 22 LR with a scope more expensive than the rifle. I'm nearsighted, so sighting that scope and seeing everything clearly is a real joy. And I'm a pretty accurate shot.
But I don't hunt animals, a previous wife just knew I liked guns and gave me the rifle for Christmas.

Strange, to like guns, and be a pacifist. I've shot a 1911 45, man what a cannon, and a 38 revolver (nice to have the chief of police there...) but handguns are pretty scary to me. Would never own one, since they
are (and yes I understand hunters need a backup weapon) simply agents of human misery. Protection to many, life and family wreckers to more. But that's because of the violent society we live in, not the guns.
I understand a shotgun for home defense. I hope I never have to use ours, and likely won't. But I promised my wife's father when I asked for her hand to protect her, and I will, however imperfectly.

I live in a state that apparently doesn't care what I have in the closet. But then I'm a normal tax paying, law abiding citizen.
But I can see a day when there is a knock on the door and someone holding a big printout in uniform will be there to collect my shotgun and rifle.
Why, to protect my paper targets? No, like Prohibition or Sharia Law, someone thinks they know what's best for me, and are going to force their will on me.

I found out a few years back through research that fifteen members of my very extended family wound up in the ovens at Belzec. A whole "township" full of Augenblicks rounded up
and shipped off in the train cars to their death. Never again. I may be a pacifist, but I'm not getting in that railroad car.
This stuff happens, we need to remember the depths of depravity and psychopathic mental illness our species is capable of.

So you want to print my name in some big list and publish it? Not sure this meets any reasonable public need that could not be achieved in more private ways.
Geez, are you going to take my paper targets away too?
Instead of taking my guns, how about making gun locks available for free? Now that would be sensible public policy.

 

[IslandTractor]

I watched the entire NRA press conference and did not hear them use the word "volunteer". To be sure I just went and checked the transcript and they did not say anything about armed volunteers in schools. They did question why there is no funding for putting paid police officers in schools.

quote: With all the foreign aid the United States does, with all the money in the federal budget, can't we afford to put a police officer in every single school?

Check for yourself.....

Remarks from the NRA press conference on Sandy Hook school shooting, delivered on Dec. 21, 2012 (Transcript) - Washington Post

You are correct. It was a couple of days after the initial statement, perhaps on the Sunday talk shows, that the NRA spokesman started talking about volunteers. Here is a quote from an AP report after those Sunday shows:

" By Kevin Freking, Associated Press
Sunday, Dec. 23, 2012 | 10:24 a.m.
WASHINGTON — The National Rifle Association on Sunday forcefully stuck to its call for placing armed police officers and security guards in every school as the best way to avoid shootings such as the recent massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the nation's largest gun rights lobbying organization, said the NRA would push Congress to put a police officer in every school and would coordinate a national effort to put former military and police offers in schools as volunteer guards.

The NRA's response to the Newtown shooting has been panned on several fronts since the group broke its weeklong silence on Friday about the rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Rep. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., called it "the most revolting, tone deaf statement I've ever seen." A headline from the New York Post summarized LaPierre's initial presentation before reporters in Washington with the headline: "Gun Nut! NRA loon in bizarre rant over Newtown."

"If it's crazy to call for putting police and armed security in our schools to protect our children, then call me crazy," LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday. "I think the American people think it's crazy not to do it. It's the one thing that would keep people safe."

LaPierre also contended that any new efforts by Congress to regulate guns or ammunition would not prevent mass shootings. His fresh comments reinforced the position that the NRA took on Friday.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said LaPierre appears to blame everything but guns for a series of mass shootings in recent years.

"Trying to prevent shootings in schools without talking about guns is like trying to prevent lung cancer without talking about cigarettes," Schumer said.

The NRA plans to develop an emergency response program that would include using volunteers from the group's 4.3 million members to help guard children, and has named former Rep. Asa Hutchinson, R-Ark., as national director of the school program."

 

[IslandTractor]

Gotta love the gun control LIBS. Volunteers with guns in the schools:laughing:

And if I was correct, does that make you question the NRA?