Cracked Block: Whose Responsibility??

[Mahindra One]

I'm writing on behalf of a good friend. Took his 1948 8N to a dealer for a motor overhaul. It was reportedly ready to be picked up about 10 days ago and as he planned to go get it he later got a call from the dealership saying it wouldn't start and they needed to see why. About a week later he received a call from the dealer saying that they determined the block was cracked in two places. Now the tractor was taken to the dealer with no indicators of a cracked block. The owner had checked the oil within a couple days of taking it, hadn't been using it due to lack of growth of the grass here in Texas (all it he has ever used it for) and feels pretty sure that there was no indication of any cracks when delivered to the dealer. His thought is that perhaps it is possible that the block was cracked during installation of the cylinder sleeves. Not being a mechanic myself, nor is he, I would like some feedback from some of the brother's as to the likelihood of this happening or whatever other ideas anyone has. Thanks for reading.

 

[oldnslo]

Where in the block are the cracks? Presume since it did't start water was getting into the cylinders.

 

[duroc]

Where in the block are the cracks? Presume since it did't start water was getting into the cylinders.

That's what I'd say! If water IS getting in the cylinders I would have to say that the dealer was negligent in checking for any cracks. When pulling a motor apart for a rebuild you are suppose to look for bad areas, IE, cracked blocks, heads, scoring, etc. etc. If you don't see any, but are in question, you send the parts out to be checked. As an engine builder it's YOUR responsibility to do so. And, on an engine that old, I would definitely send the block out to be magnafluxed prior to an overhaul - just because that's the way I do things. Any "good" engine builder would/should do the same! YMMV!

 

[murphy1244]

Be interesting if they want the money for the rebuild.

 

[94BULLITT]

Where is it cracked?

So he took it in for a rebuild and they rebuilt it, then before he went to pick it up it would not start and the block is cracked?

 

[Mahindra One]

Don't know where it's cracked but they offered to provide labor if he payed 500 for a block.

 

[CurlyDave]

Don't know where it's cracked but they offered to provide labor if he payed 500 for a block.

Just what is included in a "motor overhaul"?

If what they are offering is to completely rebuild (new rings, grind valves, new valves & pistons as needed, new cylinder liners) a block that he buys for $500, that sounds like a pretty reasonable deal.

I doubt they cracked the block, but I do think they should have tested the block before doing the work. If they had found the crack, he would have had to buy another block anyway, plus pay for the rest of the overhaul.

 

[RickB]

Just what is included in a "motor overhaul"?

If what they are offering is to completely rebuild (new rings, grind valves, new valves & pistons as needed, new cylinder liners) a block that he buys for $500, that sounds like a pretty reasonable deal.

I doubt they cracked the block, but I do think they should have tested the block before doing the work. If they had found the crack, he would have had to buy another block anyway, plus pay for the rest of the overhaul.

I agree. It is a no-win situation for everybody. Share the misery & pain; move on.

It is NOT common practice to magnaflux & pressure test a cylinder block that is not suspected of being faulty.
Perhaps the owner declined to bear the cost of such testing because it didn't seem necessary; or the dealer didn't suggest it for the same reason.

It is a 60 year old lump of cast iron that has been heat cycled and shock loaded thousands of times.

 

[pjbci]

Don't know where it's cracked but they offered to provide labor if he payed 500 for a block.

That statement alone tells me that the block was cracked in the dealers shop.

 

[murphy1244]

I agree. It is a no-win situation for everybody. Share the misery & pain; move on.

It is NOT common practice to magnaflux & pressure test a cylinder block that is not suspected of being faulty.
Perhaps the owner declined to bear the cost of such testing because it didn't seem necessary; or the dealer didn't suggest it for the same reason.

It is a 60 year old lump of cast iron that has been heat cycled and shock loaded thousands of times.

Agree and get the old block back. You still need a running engine.

 

[flusher]

Sorry to hear about your problem. Old tractors like the 8N are prone to engine block cracks.

I sent the Hercules engine from my 1951 Minneapolis Moline BF tractor to the shop for an engine rebuild. During the cleaning process the machinist found a hairline crack in the water jacket on the right side of the engine. Not a big deal to fix.

I sent the engine for my 1948 Farmall Cub to the shop for a rebuild. When the front cover on the block was removed, we found that the block had a major crack and separation on the lower right side of the engine where the coolant line goes into the front bolster that carries the radiator and the front axle. Turns out that this is due to a well known weakness in the design of the early Cub blocks. Can't be fixed--the block is scrap.

Good luck.

 

[brain55]

Sometimes bad things happen. It doesn't mean the shop is trying to get over on or screw anybody. The $500 for the block seems like a fair deal to me. The shop is eating a big chunk of labor to try and make things right in my opinion.

Brian

 

[94BULLITT]

I think we need more details. If it was just rebuilt the block should have been magnafluxed

 

[Tig]

Sometimes bad things happen. It doesn't mean the shop is trying to get over on or screw anybody. The $500 for the block seems like a fair deal to me. The shop is eating a big chunk of labor to try and make things right in my opinion.

Brian

Agree, and I put special emphasis on the trying to make thing right thought.
To put this all in context, what happened to the bill for the failed rebuild? Skipping the magnaflux saved $50 to $100, but there could be a lot of wasted effort and parts in there. Of those parts, what is wasted?

 

[Coyote machine]

Why did it go in for a rebuild in the first place. What was wrong with it? If you don't know for certain that it wasn't cracked before it went to the shop- then when it cracked is anyone's guess, and it does not mean the shop cracked it. It would be nice if they did, but since no one knows their offer is trying to help you out. Take it and chalk it up to experience for what you have to know beforehand next time.

 

[crazyal]

I agree. It is a no-win situation for everybody. Share the misery & pain; move on.

It is NOT common practice to magnaflux & pressure test a cylinder block that is not suspected of being faulty.
Perhaps the owner declined to bear the cost of such testing because it didn't seem necessary; or the dealer didn't suggest it for the same reason.

It is a 60 year old lump of cast iron that has been heat cycled and shock loaded thousands of times.

The sad thing is that for a few hundred anyone could be set up to do magnetic particle testing. I could teach anyone in about 5 minutes how to do it. I'm sure you could google to find the basics. You're not going to be a certified NDT level 3 specialist but for simply inspecting a block or head before you waste your time it seams it would be worth it to me. For that matter dye penetrant would work just fine and is real cheap.

 

[RickB]

Don't know where it's cracked but they offered to provide labor if he payed 500 for a block.

That statement alone tells me that the block was cracked in the dealers shop.

Or the dealer understands customer service. Situations like this are less about who is right and more about doing the right thing.
Not all service shops are run by scumbags.

 

[RickB]

The sad thing is that for a few hundred anyone could be set up to do magnetic particle testing. I could teach anyone in about 5 minutes how to do it. I'm sure you could google to find the basics. You're not going to be a certified NDT level 3 specialist but for simply inspecting a block or head before you waste your time it seams it would be worth it to me. For that matter dye penetrant would work just fine and is real cheap.

But that's irrelevant if the customer won't write the check.

 

[4shorts]

The fact is we need to know exactly where the crack or cracks are to make a educated evaluation but I've seen technicians crack blocks during rebuilds by not cleaning out the threaded head bolt holes in the block and leaving old oil in them and when the technician installs the head bolts they end up with hydraulic lock and you got your crack and that crack can spread big time. Remember. This is just an asumption on my part :confused3:

 

[pjbci]

Or the dealer understands customer service. Situations like this are less about who is right and more about doing the right thing.
Not all service shops are run by scumbags.

True. I am currently dealing with 2 service deptartment who are leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. This may have tainted my response just a tad! Haha.