Long range shooting.....what do I need?

   / Long range shooting.....what do I need?
  • Thread Starter
#41  
Start with a scope.
Target or tactical shooting have very different requirements. Target, known range, plenty of time, etc. Tactical the opposite.
Old school military tactical rifles had 10x fixed scopes with mil-dots for quick ranging and wind adjustments. Modern day are variable from 5x to 30x with front focus reticules (FFR) being the rage for ranging.
Expect to spend $1K+ for a modern tactical long range scope. Read-up. Tactical turrets allow for quick and repeatable range and windage adjustments, Target turrets not so much but a good target scope can be had for <$500.
Your rifle is a good starting point. The military has used .308, 300WM and 50cal for long range shooting for years. Time proven and tested but the .270 is a fine flat shooting cartridge.

Thanks, good points. And I really like my .270 and I generally shoot it well. So I hope to stick with it.

Good Luck, allot of data to sort through.

OMG, you are right about that. In fact, it is almost overwhelming and it is hard to sort through what I actually need for the things I want to do. My buddy is a great guy and he knows his stuff but for folks who are really into this (or any other hobby) they have a hard time relating to someone like me who mostly just wants to dabble. And just like any other hobby/sport there is no end to the time and money you can spend. I pretty much just want to be able to consistently put a few rounds in a pie plate at 300 or so yards.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #42  
I have not done much shooting past 450 yards. That was with 308 in Varmint weight barrel with a 3-9x40 hunting scope. I want to get back in to that, as i have access to a range facility out to 1000 yards(in California even!). And, have a higher power scope.

If you look historically, a lot of long range shooting has been done with 1x or lower power especially in military. The link I posted above was a Hathcock replica rifle. He made a LOT of long range shots with an 8x Lyman on a Win70. When the Rem700 came online in the Marine program, the Redfield scope was only in that 9x range max.

I'd really look at some some of the long range shooting web sites. I'm not so sure it would benefit you to go high power scope on a sporter barrel. Might look at a bull barrel and use one of the scopes you already have, in 308.

I would expect a 308 or a 270 to easily put 5 round groups in much smaller than a pie plate at 300 yards. With a decent scope and ammo, MOA or smaller should be possible at 300 yards with a good rest.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #43  
Just got off the phone with a friend of mine. He is a professional shotgun shooter for Benelli and instructor and is internationally ranked in ...
....He also was not real keen on the .270 for 500+ yard shooting. Primarily he said it is hard to find factory ammo for long range target shooting and that reloading would be a must. But he also said something about the ballistic coefficient of the .270 not being ideal....not sure what he meant and he may have been referring to .270 hunting bullets.

Well there are some bullets with a better ballistic coefficient but not many. A Nosler 150 gr .277 ballistic tip bullet has a BC of .496 and a 7mm .284 " 175 gr. Partition bullet has a BC of .519 and a 155 gr .308" Nosler custom competition HPBT has a BC of .450 so the 270 runs in good company.
Take that 150 grain 277 bullet and load it ahead of 55.0 grains of H4831 powder and she will step out of a 24" barrel at about 2900fps and go +4" inches at 100, then + 4.7 at 200 and be dead on at 300 then just -11 inches at 400 yards. To shoot flatter then that so you can measure the difference you have to go to a 7mm Rem mag shooting 175 gr at 3000fps and then the difference at 400 yards is only one inch.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #44  
OK, so maybe I missed it but what rangefinder do you have? Once you pass 300 yards you need to do better than guessing at the range. Are you going to get yourself a wind meter ? With a good rangefinder and some practice, you can get the elevation down pat, then it is the wind deflection that is going to get you.

Speaking of which, what bullets are you shooting ? For long range you need to shoot bullets at the top end of the weight spectrum that have the highest BC your barrel can manage. The good thing is that 270 has some good bullets available. The bad thing is that perhaps your barrel may not be able to stabilize them. Berger makes a 150gr Hunting VLD with a G1 BC of 0.531 which is pretty good. It needs a 1:10 twist barrel to shoot it though. What is your twist rate ? A look at the Hodgdon reloading site shows 150gr bullets going 2850 fps at max loads (from a 24" barrel). Plugging that into a ballistic program yields the following:


Range Drop Windage (10mph left) Velocity fps Energy ftlb
0 0 0 2850 2705
100 0 0.6L 2673 2379
200 -1.5 1.2L 2502 2085
300 -3.7 1.9L 2338 1820
400 -6.4 2.6L 2180 1582
500 -9.4 3.3L 2028 1369
600 -12.7 4.1L 1882 1180
700 -16.5 5.0L 1744 1013
800 -20.6 5.9L 1613 867
900 -25.3 6.9L 1492 741
1000 -30.5 7.9L 1380 684

So a few things to note: At 1000 yards (with a left crosswind of 10MPH) you end up with 684ftlb of retained energy at a velocity of 1380fps. The energy is equivalent to the muzzle energy from a 10mm handgun or from a 55gr 223 bullet at 300 yards.
Most scopes with 1/4MOA clicks will dial 12MOA per turn on the turret. So you can see that gets you just short of 600 yards on a single rotation. To go past 900 yards takes more than 2 turns, just less than 3 turns to get to 1000 yards. That windage doesn't look so bad until you realize that a 10mph wind speed miss-call translates to 83" of displacement at 1000 yards. For that reason, one needs a wind speed meter in the field. Even then it still takes judgement to know how the wind flows over the landscape.

So my recommendation is as follows:
1)Find out your barrel twist so you know if it will stabilize heavy VLD type bullets.
2)You will want to do your own reloading, since VLD hunting ammo is very expensive to buy and it gives you control of all the variables that influence accuracy from the ammo point of view
3)You are going to need good glass in the way of binoculars, rangefinder and scope. I suggest you consider the Vortex PST 4-16 or 6-24 scopes. The 4-16 saves you a bit of money, for all practical purposes 6x is a pretty good Min hunting magnification that you are familiar with. If you get the second focal plane scope, they run about $750 at opticsplanet and you will not regret the decision. You have to spend substantially more before you might see any improvement in quality. Get at least a 1000 yard rangefinder from Nikon, Leupold, Vortex, Leica or Swarowski. If it says 1000 yards, they probably mean 800 unless conditions are ideal...
4)If you have not done it already, you will want to make sure the barrel is free floated and the action bedded
5) Unless your trigger is absolutely flawless, you will want the trigger tuned. The trigger alone can have a pretty big impact past 300 yards. Usually safety dictates not much less than 1.5lb on a field gun, but it needs to be crisp and creep free.
6) You will need a good rest. At least a bipod on the front and a bag for the rear of the stock. It goes without saying a decent shooters mat.
7) if you don't like your odds of shooting the breeze and missing by 80" then you need a wind meter like a Kestrel. http://www.kestrelmeters.com/products/kestrel-4000-weather-meter

Finally a lot of practice and a way to take your ballistic info into the field with you. I have a simple table based on drop and wind drift for a 10mph wind but I would have to do some rapid interpolation if it is not 10mph. I also have the FFP version of the Vortex scope so I can directly use the reticle for drop and wind if I don't have time to touch the turret (which is the usual situation with coyotes). bearing in mind my range is limited to 450 yards currently, but then a coyote is a small target.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need?
  • Thread Starter
#45  
Well there are some bullets with a better ballistic coefficient but not many. A Nosler 150 gr .277 ballistic tip bullet has a BC of .496 and a 7mm .284 " 175 gr. Partition bullet has a BC of .519 and a 155 gr .308" Nosler custom competition HPBT has a BC of .450 so the 270 runs in good company.
Take that 150 grain 277 bullet and load it ahead of 55.0 grains of H4831 powder and she will step out of a 24" barrel at about 2900fps and go +4" inches at 100, then + 4.7 at 200 and be dead on at 300 then just -11 inches at 400 yards. To shoot flatter then that so you can measure the difference you have to go to a 7mm Rem mag shooting 175 gr at 3000fps and then the difference at 400 yards is only one inch.

He may have been referring to readily available hunting loads.....not sure. But your point is well taken.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #46  
I just recently fitted a 26" Shilen match barrel to my Savage 12 in 243 Win Ackley Improved. It has an 8 twist so it will stabilize the 105gr Berger VLD's. Making a comparison to your 270 which is based on the 30-06 cartridge, mine has a lot less powder capacity, yet at 1000 yards it retains 558ftlb of energy at 1547fps and has only 6.8moa of wind drift. Still plenty to kill coyotes with, but I wouldn't be taking on any big game...

In 7mm one has the 180gr hunting VLD with a BC of 0.659, thats impressive and hardly more recoil than a 308 or 30-06. 300 yards is not too difficult a range to get proficient at. With high BC bullets wind drift is not bad and while the drop certainly matters, it is by no means extreme. Try hunting with a slug gun or muzzle loader .... There you have to be dead on with the range, else you are sunk. And most of the bullets have lousy wind properties too.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need?
  • Thread Starter
#47  
OK, so maybe I missed it but what rangefinder do you have?.

No rangefinder. Yet. My 100 yard range was measured directly with a tape. The 300 yards was an estimate that was later confirmed by GPS. So ballpark at least. And I'm horrible at sight guessing any distance past 100 yards. I can 'step off' distance +/- a few yards per 100. So yes, a rangefinder would be nice. For now, since I will just be target shooting at fixed distances a rangefinder won't be a must-have. But I can borrow one if need be.

And remember, for now I'm not planning on shooting much past 300 yards. I've got excellent binocs but not powerful enough. I have a good, but very old B&L spotting scope with a 48x objective on a decent tripod. At 300 yards the optics show a lot of glare but I can still I can clearly see bullet holes in white paper. It might suffice out to 500 yards with special easy to see target paper.

Triggers. Well, hard to say. I know the trigger in the .270 (Remington 700) was lightened significantly from the factory setting but nowhere near 1.5 pounds. I'm thinking 5 but that could be wrong. Whatever it is, I like it. It seems very precise, predictable and no creep at all. If it had to be changed I'd have to pay a gunsmith to modify it or buy an aftermarket trigger. The trigger on the .308 Husqvarna is also very precise and fairly predictable but is definitely heavier. I'm pretty sure it is adjustable, but has to come out of the stock.

Barrels of both guns are floated.

I have a homemade bench rest that mounts to a WorkMate. It is heavy but stable. I've got a good leather purpose-made bag for the butt stock and an adjustable height front rest so I can get things steady.

My buddy says he has a superb iPhone app for ballistics but he says it is pricey (for an app). He will show it to me this weekend.

Thanks for the excellent info. I think I'll have a better idea of what I need to do after practicing some with the .270 as-is with the 6x scope. I expect to be able to shoot a tighter group with it than I did the .308. It is heavier and I'll be using better ammo. We'll see.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need?
  • Thread Starter
#48  
Not sure of the twist on the .270. It is the original factory Remington barrel.
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #49  
I will give you a great deal on a Nikon Rangefinder that I bought last season after I "lost" my original.... Needless to say, cleaning up my reloading bench after the season, I find a paper bag with all sorts of stuff in it, including my missing rangefinder...

The new one was one of these. Send me a PM if interested
353_8358_MonarchGoldLaser1200_black_front.png
 
   / Long range shooting.....what do I need? #50  
Now we come to the real Beef!

"To Dabble Or Not To Dabble". :thumbsup:

The temptation will be great.:)
 

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