Alternator not charging battery. Alternator, battery, and fuses all check out fine.

[HarryN]

wow... a lot of advise from well-meaning folk, but it seems not everybody is reading what the OP has already done...
1. New battery last fall and just tested. When fully charged, it is good enough to start the tractor, so I wouldn't suspect a problem with battery cables at either end. It bothers me that the battery voltage goes down so rapidly after the tractor is started... should last for hours, the only load should be the fuel pump ?

She never started the tractor with the battery she said "I am having to jump the battery on the tractor each time to get it to start"

 

[Coyote machine]

wow... a lot of advise from well-meaning folk, but it seems not everybody is reading what the OP has already done...
1. New battery last fall and just tested. When fully charged, it is good enough to start the tractor, so I wouldn't suspect a problem with battery cables at either end. It bothers me that the battery voltage goes down so rapidly after the tractor is started... should last for hours, the only load should be the fuel pump ?

She never started the tractor with the battery she said "I am having to jump the battery on the tractor each time to get it to start"

Good point! Further leads to the overcycled battery being DEAD as a result of a charging system fault. It takes a static charge and immediately looses it when the tractor is running without even a load on the battery. The charging system hasn't put any voltage back to the battery in quite some time. It's finally bit the bullet....time for a new one then find the charging system malfunction and solve the entire problem. One step at a time.

To the OP: Please post the link to the service manual for downloading along with the exact model # of your tractor, and if it's manual or hydro transmission. Thx.

Any way you can get your money back from the i@7%T who came to your house? It's really outrageous especially since he didn't help you with the problem at all!:thumbsdown:

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

My bad, Harry... in re-reading the OP`s post 5, I guess I assumed that she had started the tractor using only the tractors battery after charging it for 3.5 hours. Always best not to ASSUME !
It would certainly point to a bad battery if indeed it would NOT start the tractor after being charged for 3.5 hours.

Either way, though... IMO there is something wrong in the charging circuitry.

Pete

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

My bad, Harry... in re-reading the OP`s post 5, I guess I assumed that she had started the tractor using only the tractors battery after charging it for 3.5 hours. Always best not to ASSUME !
It would certainly point to a bad battery if indeed it would NOT start the tractor after being charged for 3.5 hours.

Either way, though... IMO there is something wrong in the charging circuitry.

Pete

 

[murphy1244]

Is see we got the double post double post blues again.

 

[Coyote machine]

To the op, I found the service manual and on page 10-8 it shows the fuse box. On the next page it shows the #1 fuse as being the Battery fuse. Check it by removing it and making sure it is good. If, and hopefully this is one of the problems you are encountering, it's BAD, then replace it and see what you get for voltage at the battery. Post back results.

 

[MomNottaMechanic]

Sorry guys. I should have posted earlier in the day but it got busy. Farm, kids, store to run, etc. Time got away from me! Anyhow, I watched them test the battery again today and it tested out at the proper % to be considered good for it's age. He said it barely did but it did. However, I switched it out for a loaner battery and the tractor started on its own and holds the charge much much longer but still does start to wind down slowly and becomes more noticeable after about the 45 minute mark. Nothing as bad as before but it is there.

I did check out the #1 fuse and it shows .04 on the meter.

I shook the ground cable as suggested and there is no real difference in the readings on the meter when I do this.

I checked where the ground cable connects to the side and there is no corrosion or anything that looks odd. I also wiggled on it and it didn稚 seem to change anything when it was running.

I've got good wiring diagrams that I found in the ownerç—´ manual but am trying to go step by step as suggested. Here is a link I found to the TYM manuals: Index of /t450

My next step, I assume, is to check the voltage on the stud piece of the alternator. I値l do that after I get the kids down for the night and get some farm chores done. It will be super late but I cannot wait to get this mess figured out!

Oh, I will be visiting the guy who came out to work on the tractor tomorrow. I figure I値l wait till I know his place will be busy (first thing in the morning) and take all the kids with me. 8 kids in a waiting room should help him see the light. This will be the first time I don稚 threaten their lives for not behaving in public before entering a public establishment. Yes, I am your typical vindictive female I fear.

Thanks everyone and sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I did state that I had not been able to get it to start without jumping it each time but had also stated it would start if I charged it first. I should have clarified and been more plain spoken. Sorry about that!

Thanks again everyone! Weæ±*e newer to the internet and I must say it actually comes in handy!

 

[Coyote machine]

Sorry guys. I should have posted earlier in the day but it got busy. Farm, kids, store to run, etc. Time got away from me! Anyhow, I watched them test the battery again today and it tested out at the proper % to be considered good for it's age. He said it barely did but it did. However, I switched it out for a loaner battery and the tractor started on its own and holds the charge much much longer but still does start to wind down slowly and becomes more noticeable after about the 45 minute mark. Nothing as bad as before but it is there.

I did check out the #1 fuse and it shows .04 on the meter.

I shook the ground cable as suggested and there is no real difference in the readings on the meter when I do this.

I checked where the ground cable connects to the side and there is no corrosion or anything that looks odd. I also wiggled on it and it didn稚 seem to change anything when it was running.

I've got good wiring diagrams that I found in the ownerç—´ manual but am trying to go step by step as suggested. Here is a link I found to the TYM manuals: Index of /t450

My next step, I assume, is to check the voltage on the stud piece of the alternator. I値l do that after I get the kids down for the night and get some farm chores done. It will be super late but I cannot wait to get this mess figured out!

Oh, I will be visiting the guy who came out to work on the tractor tomorrow. I figure I値l wait till I know his place will be busy (first thing in the morning) and take all the kids with me. 8 kids in a waiting room should help him see the light. This will be the first time I don稚 threaten their lives for not behaving in public before entering a public establishment. Yes, I am your typical vindictive female I fear.

Thanks everyone and sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I did state that I had not been able to get it to start without jumping it each time but had also stated it would start if I charged it first. I should have clarified and been more plain spoken. Sorry about that!

Thanks again everyone! Weæ±*e newer to the internet and I must say it actually comes in handy!

First off, no one is worried about how long it takes for you to get back to us or how well you explain things- you're doing better than a lot of people do in explaining and understanding what's going on. And some people just don't read carefully enough to see what others are saying sometimes.

New policy: no excuses for who you are- you shouldn't have been charged anything except possibly a trip out to your house, at best. You knew nothing more when he left than when he arrived, right?
Bring ALL the kids and a few goats if you have any to spare, and let him have it!

No. You've established that the new battery is good, the charging system is NOT working and that is why your battery from Oct. is also marginally good at best. Just to be absolutely sure I'd like to see you replace the fuse marked battery with an identical fuse, 15 Amps, (I believe it was). I believe there are spares in the fuse box.
Now to find out why the alternator is not supplying needed voltage back to the battery. First I want to verify when you ran with the new battery did you use the meter to monitor the voltage at the battery posts? What readings did you get?
While you answer that I will study your service manual re the alternator. Meantime can you tell me the color of ALL the wires going to the alternator, and any leaving it to connect to something else, if any?
Thanks post back when you can.

 

[uglyboywith11fingers]

snip... You've established that the new battery is good, the charging system is NOT working and that is why your battery from Oct. is also marginally good at best....snip

I was told once by a self-described auto-electric expert that every time you run a lead-acid battery down flat, you've taken a year off it's life. If there is any truth to that, it might explain why the 'bought in October' battery is not so good.

Pete

 

[94BULLITT]

I was told once by a self-described auto-electric expert that every time you run a lead-acid battery down flat, you've taken a year off it's life. If there is any truth to that, it might explain why the 'bought in October' battery is not so good.

Pete

It is certainly not doing it any good.

 

[zzvyb6]

Did I miss it? I have not seen a reference yet to the charge idiot light on the dash. If there was a alternator or regulator failure, the charge light would come on.

I also see that there is supposed to be a lighting connector for a trailer on this machine. Is this so? Check to see if there is a problem with this connector (dummy plug installed, dirt or crud causing a short). To me, the key clue in this investigation is that the machine dies when the battery cable is pulled off. To me, this means that: The alternator output is zero (dead alternator), or the alternator output is insufficient to provide all the electrical needs (lights, fuel pump, gauges, safety switches, shorts, or other high loads, whatever).

So, check to see what the headlights do when you run the throttle up and down. Look around for any hot spots in the wiring, solenoids, or auxilliary equipment that may be stuck in the ON position (glow plugs??), etc.

I had the exact same issue with my JD 1070, but at least I had the idiot light to tell me something was amiss. It was the voltage regulator.

 

[MomNottaMechanic]

Pete and Roger, you are both right. I just don't know what is bringing the charge down.

Coyote, thank you. When I go back out to the barn, I'll get pictures of things and note the colors of all wires. I'll also try switching out the fuse and find my notes on voltage readings.
Extra goats to spare, we have them!

 

[Coyote machine]

Yes, running a battery flat numerous times will kill it prematurely for sure. Whether one looses a year/run flat instance is anyone's guess, but as stated it doesn't help it maintain a charge. They are not designed to be run flat, they meant to have an alternator/generator feed them 'excess voltage' above the amount drawn off to keep the charge state higher than any potential drain.
The dash light is a good indicator, assuming for a moment it is not a part of the actual no output from the alternator condition, that is almost certain to be the ultimate culprit.

Here is my premise, based on what we've determined so far. Something is causing the charge system to NOT recharge the battery. Even with a new battery we don't know until we get the voltage reading report if there is ANY output from the alternator back to the battery. I highly doubt there is, but I want to be certain, before we go down the wrong road.
Once we know for sure that there is NO feedback to the battery, then the rule out becomes wiring or alternator/voltage regulator. I'd put money on wiring- ONLY because we've been told that the alternator functions on the bench.
We need to know what wires attach to the 'alt' and where they feed to from it. In the diagrams of the service manual I saw what looked like an opaque colored 'fusable link' in the harness clutter up at the firewall near where the hood closes. I could not discern whether this is what I was looking at but they had a red circle around it and reference letters and arrows and stuff, but no clear explanation.
I looked further at the big wiring diagram, which was so compressed it was hard to see when blowing it up to readable size. It seems the wires at the alt show a wire with a built in diode at the top, and a ground wire at the bottom of the pic. The ground is obvious from it's multiple straight lines and a single line drawn down to it. There don't seem to be any other connections BUT hopefully a picture or two will tell us more from the OP. I want to see the 'battery fuse' from the #1 slot in the fusebox changed out just to eliminate it from the problem, like we did with the battery.

Wondering if there are mice near the tractor? Is it stored out or inside? Where the ground wire from the alt is connected, is it a good CLEAN ground?

BTW, feed and water the kids and the goats and arrive at the '*mechanic's',(*HA, HA) door when they ALL have to go 'potty', and let them loose on him all at once- you'll get your money back. Don't forget to cry, and if necessary scream a little about feeling ripped off big time while your husband is away on business... something ought to get through... Use what you got going for you!! All's fair in WAR!

 

[David Devuono]

So looking at the manual and wiring diagram, there is a ton of stuff on this tractor that will drain a battery, just not in 3 minutes so the battery is likey toast. The alternator is internally regulated and any mention of Regulator and Rectifier means Alternator. It is externally excited through a lamp on the dash with a Battery picture on it. When turning the key to ON, just before engaging the starter the battery lamp should be lit. If not, then you need to find out why. It could be the lamp itself or wiring or fuse.


I can't believe the guy would come out and not fix her tractor. Since he tested the Alternator and it charges another battery, then sell her a battery and be done with the job. If he had to apply external battery to excite the alternator, then why not tell her that the exciter ciruit is faulty but without a wiring diagram he cannot trouble shoot further.

 

[BobRip]

I was told once by a self-described auto-electric expert that every time you run a lead-acid battery down flat, you've taken a year off it's life. If there is any truth to that, it might explain why the 'bought in October' battery is not so good.

Pete

I think there is some truth in that.

 

[rmorey]

So...how did you make out at the repair shop with the 8 kids and goats? Inquiring minds need to know? :laughing:

 

[MomNottaMechanic]

Well, he opens at 8:00am. We were there by 8:15am when everyone was coming in to drop things off, pick up, etc. The kids behaved flawlessly which was not my preference at that time. I told him I wanted an itemized bill to show what I was charged for. He tried to say it was all mileage but wouldn't make me a receipt showing such. 31 miles does not add up to that much. I let him know my next stop was to file a BBB complaint and with Consumer Protection Division of our state's Attny General's office. I was quiet about it but he was not. I fear it was humoring at least 2 of the gentlemen there. In the end I got all put $93 back. He felt he was owed that for mileage and time spent. I can't argue as he was owed something for his time and mileage. As we were leaving, 2 older gentlemen by the door commented on the children and winked. I think they got the drift as to what was going on. I'm happy with how it turned out.

He was not the same person who tested my battery or alternator. 3 different guys there.

The tractor is up and going and keeping its charge now. I was ready to pull my hair out so I started over with step one. I played around with fuses even though they all checked out. I replaced each one in turn to see if it made a difference. The one for the glow plug seemed to make the difference. When I switched it out, it was the middle of the night so it was super quiet in there and I could hear the faintest clicking noise under there. I tracked it down and it was the glow plug relay. It was clicking non-stop and wouldn't quit. So I replaced the glow plug relay yesterday and left the replacement fuse for the glow plug there. I have run the tractor for 6 hrs non-stop and the battery does not wind down on voltage readings. In fact it comes out even or higher than when it first starts up. I used it a lot today and same thing. It does not wind down and goes up only slightly but it is still up so I'm thrilled.

As best I can figure the relay was winding down the battery and it got to the point it couldn't recharge with the alternator. If yall have better ideas as to what was going on, I'd love to hear them. I also managed to replace a light bulb and now the other lights work just fine. I think it was just a separate problem with suspect timing.

Thank you everyone, so much. There is no way I'd have EVER figured this out without yall stepping me through things one thing at a time to narrow down possible problems. I so truly appreciate your time and suggestions. Yall are wonderful!

 

[rmorey]

Well, he opens at 8:00am. We were there by 8:15am when everyone was coming in to drop things off, pick up, etc. The kids behaved flawlessly which was not my preference at that time. I told him I wanted an itemized bill to show what I was charged for. He tried to say it was all mileage but wouldn't make me a receipt showing such. 31 miles does not add up to that much. I let him know my next stop was to file a BBB complaint and with Consumer Protection Division of our state's Attny General's office. I was quiet about it but he was not. I fear it was humoring at least 2 of the gentlemen there. In the end I got all put $93 back. He felt he was owed that for mileage and time spent. I can't argue as he was owed something for his time and mileage. As we were leaving, 2 older gentlemen by the door commented on the children and winked. I think they got the drift as to what was going on. I'm happy with how it turned out.

He was not the same person who tested my battery or alternator. 3 different guys there.

The tractor is up and going and keeping its charge now. I was ready to pull my hair out so I started over with step one. I played around with fuses even though they all checked out. I replaced each one in turn to see if it made a difference. The one for the glow plug seemed to make the difference. When I switched it out, it was the middle of the night so it was super quiet in there and I could hear the faintest clicking noise under there. I tracked it down and it was the glow plug relay. It was clicking non-stop and wouldn't quit. So I replaced the glow plug relay yesterday and left the replacement fuse for the glow plug there. I have run the tractor for 6 hrs non-stop and the battery does not wind down on voltage readings. In fact it comes out even or higher than when it first starts up. I used it a lot today and same thing. It does not wind down and goes up only slightly but it is still up so I'm thrilled.

As best I can figure the relay was winding down the battery and it got to the point it couldn't recharge with the alternator. If yall have better ideas as to what was going on, I'd love to hear them. I also managed to replace a light bulb and now the other lights work just fine. I think it was just a separate problem with suspect timing.

Thank you everyone, so much. There is no way I'd have EVER figured this out without yall stepping me through things one thing at a time to narrow down possible problems. I so truly appreciate your time and suggestions. Yall are wonderful!

As best as I can figure it, you were nothing short of amazing! I know there were lots of people offering tips, but you approached this thing logically and systematically and even out performed the pros. (especially that guy from the shop) Job well done!

 

[murphy1244]

As best as I can figure it, you were nothing short of amazing! I know there were lots of people offering tips, but you approached this thing logically and systematically and even out performed the pros. (especially that guy from the shop) Job well done!

x2 Really good job, you should be proud.

 

[94BULLITT]

As best I can figure the relay was winding down the battery and it got to the point it couldn't recharge with the alternator. If yall have better ideas as to what was going on, I'd love to hear them.

That was probably what was wrong with it. A alternator is not designed to charge a battery it just maintains it.