Retirement savings ....Yikes !

   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #371  
I travel for work to many countries. Some very poor and some very rich. My observation is that low wages (such as low minimum wage) don't stimulate productivity. In example in India people will pick grass and leaves by hand. They don't have even rakes, brooms etc. Just hand. Whole village will come to clean construction mess and earn very little. If the people would be paid more by whomever employs them they would have at least shovels and rakes and in better case some machine. Work of many will be done by fewer people being more productive. If those people would earn more they would buy more stuff that could be made by the people displaced by the shovels, rakes and/or the machine. Low wages provide work for many people but at low productivity level.
I also see that it is hard to be rich in a poor country. People have razor blade wire on top of the fence, bars in windows, guard dogs and those really wealthy have private armies. I doubt anyone would want to live in a country like that...

I do not like the sugar cane companies in South FLA. They have a government protected market in the US which drives up our costs and the companies just flat out lie or at least they used too.

A couple of decades ago, sugar cane in South FLA was being harvested manually by men brought in from the Caribbean islands. The HIV/AIDs infection rate in the towns near the cane fields was the highest in the US with some of the poorest areas as well. When I first saw that cane was being harvested by men with cane knives I was shocked. Really? In this day and age the companies are bringing in men from overseas to harvest a crop? REALLY? :confused3:

Eventually the cane companies got caught messing with the wages of the workers which was going to increase their labor costs, and shortly there after, machines were in the fields harvesting sugar cane. I don't know how many of the machine operators were US citizens but the vast majority of the foreign labor lost their seasonal work as soon at the cost of labor exceeded the cost of harvesting by machines. I was just shocked this had not happened decades prior.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #372  
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #373  
A nation cannot have a high school dropout rate of forty (40%) like we have in some school districts and have a workers pool capable of doing anything except a minimum wage job.

That statement implies that high school graduates are successful and high school dropouts are not. I know people who are very successful despite having dropped out of high school. And I know people that graduated high school but have, probably, about a 8th grade education and don't even seem to notice.

It doesn't take a high school diploma to be smart. People can educate themselves without the public school system. Hard labor is another way for someone, otherwise dumb as a rock, to make a decent living. There are plenty of jobs over minimum wage that don't require a high school diploma. You can start your own business with no high school diploma. I was flipping burgers at McDonalds the summer between my junior and senior year in high school, making over minimum wage (without a high school diploma).

Keith
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #374  
A point about increasing wages for jobs that can't be oversea-ed. Remember secretaries? Used to type and answer phones ... Everybody has a keypad and voice mail now. No secretaries ... Cashiers ?? self-check out is making inroads all over in the stores I shop at. Carpenters ... Modular buildings do without skilled carpenters. Ever see a roof truss factory? Not a single carpenter employed.

I spent 30 years as an engineer to build processes to reduce labor. Each time the minimum wage increased, my project's economic justification was easier.

Here's the point. Make minimum wages increase without productivity to pay for it and the job goes away. The people formerly in that job stay home and collect gov't cheese.... since that's all the skill they have.
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #375  
A point about increasing wages for jobs that can't be oversea-ed. Remember secretaries? Used to type and answer phones ... Everybody has a keypad and voice mail now. No secretaries ... Cashiers ?? self-check out is making inroads all over in the stores I shop at. Carpenters ... Modular buildings do without skilled carpenters. Ever see a roof truss factory? Not a single carpenter employed.

I spent 30 years as an engineer to build processes to reduce labor. Each time the minimum wage increased, my project's economic justification was easier.

Here's the point. Make minimum wages increase without productivity to pay for it and the job goes away. The people formerly in that job stay home and collect gov't cheese.... since that's all the skill they have.

Good points.

There are some interesting things happening though; productivity has increased across all wage levels, but wages have not kept pace. And, where does it all end when we justify the existence of people by their economic "usefulness?" Some will get useful new skills and some never will.

Are the people without skills, or those out-produced for less money by machines, just human leftovers? What is one's status as a human with no possible job purpose in a capitalist economic system? There is some new ethics territory ahead I think.

Part of the problem will be resolved by declining population. Global population is expected to peak at around 9.5 billion in the middle of this century, and then begin a slow decline. Much of the decline is predicated on improving global economies. In a way, we are re-experiencing what the excess agricultural labor that manned the industrial revolution did.

If global population behaves as predicted, it will force new ways of thinking about economic growth, being there will be a declining number of customers. It would be interesting to see how that plays out, but I won't be around to find out. :laughing:

The federal minimum wage, now $7.25, would have to be raised to $10.67 to have kept pace with inflation over the past 40 years. In effect, we have had a declining federal minimum wage even though productivity has soared in that time period. Many states and even some cities have implemented higher than federal minimum wages.

It is difficult for me to see how raising the federal minimum wage can have that great of an negative impact, or that rising productivity has been reflected in the minimum wage. Higher productivity with declining wages accounts for some of the wealth equality issues.

Amount With Inflation | Raise The Minimum Wage
U.S. Minimum Wage History
 
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   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #376  
I have been saving since i was 22 and graduated college. My whole life I have always said I would retire at 55. I'm 45 now and have worked for a company with a 401k plan and retirement plan that they contribute to. My biggest problem will be health insurance. Don't see how I can afford it for me and wife unless she keeps working until at least 62. She is one year younger than me. I know what I have saved and what type of pension I will have and am shocked at how people are able to retire. I will have done this on my own. I paid my way thru college and there are no rich aunts or uncles. I wish I would have bought more land. That is the one thing that keeps going up.
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #377  
rickyB01,
while my wife is on Medicare due to illness,
I'm retired, 63, and right in the spot you are worrying about.
And you should worry, the cost of medical insurance is a big part of our budget.
I budgeted 20K per year and while that covers the insurance, last year we had another
fifteen thousand out of pocket for medical.

so when you think of retiring early, you must also think total out of pocket medical expense,
not just insurance, because some policies cover more, some less, and you should budget on being sick
not healthy, because otherwise your finances will add to your physical woes and make things doubly unpleasant.
Now this is a conservative approach but then I'm conservative.

The stock market has been going up so nicely that in some ways I think we get lulled into complacency, thinking
it will just keep going. But it never does, and not very long ago the market and most of us suffered a huge loss of personal wealth.
So you have to plan on that scenario, or....buy a lower cost variable annuity with secondary guarantees that make sure your money will grow a minimum of x percent per year. All based on the claims paying ability of the insurer, so here's where you want to buy only from the largest and most secure companies. Basically you are paying a fee, think insurance, but it's not a premium, for a wrapper of investment protection layered over a traditional mutual fund smorgasbord to pick from. And usually you get to pick or you can let them put you on autopilot.

Lots of folk hate annuities. Think they are ripoffs. Some are, for sure. When I was a broker some promised huge commissions to me
if I sold their contract, and all I could think is how was it possible for this contract to be good for any of my clients if I was being paid this much?
It wasn't of course. I put a large part of my retirement money into an annuity with Mass Mutual, an old, large mutual life insurance company, seriously deep pockets, which is what you want because you want to be really sure there's enough money left when your turn comes around.
So if you want to be 99% sure you will have x amount of money in a liquid tax advantaged account, an annuity really does work.
Worked for me...when the market crashed and most folk were down thirty to forty percent of their investment account value, I knew mine was unaffected, just chugging along at 5%. Genuine peace of mind, for a worrier. And that isn't free, so there is cost/expense to this alternative.
I was very happy to pay it, and even though now the guarantee amount is less than the actual amount, because the market has risen so much, well, I'm totally satisfied with the experience taking a long view. But there certainly are other alternatives. Federally backed securities assuming they have any yield at all are always a good safe bet. And btw, I would never put more than one third of my investable assets
in an annuity. Diversification there too.

One thing always to consider, if you are close, but don't quite have the cigar, is to retire, but work two days a week doing something you like.
The extra income will go a long way to pay your medical insurance.

In retirement, it's all about income streams. Luckily the retirement calculators online make this pretty easy to do.
hope this helps.
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #378  
Hehehehe, dave1949 (is that your year of birth? If so, I'm a tad older!), no, the reason I used your signature is because it was time for me to shut up! My expertise is certainly not investing!

On a different note on what I think helped cause this housing bubble - I've always believed that the house I live in is NOT an investment. I did have an investment rental house, but that's a real housing investment, not the house I live in. Reason I say this is I have never considered "equity" in my house as something to use other than to put back into the house and property. I'm saying this because seems to me having your house paid for as early as possible will definitely help in retirement.

This has been a very informative thread for me! I do think I'm a bit old now to do any investing, but younger people here should take heed. Keep out of debt the best you can! Ok, we're going to make it!
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #379  
Hehehehe, dave1949 (is that your year of birth? If so, I'm a tad older!), no, the reason I used your signature is because it was time for me to shut up! My expertise is certainly not investing!

On a different note on what I think helped cause this housing bubble - I've always believed that the house I live in is NOT an investment. I did have an investment rental house, but that's a real housing investment, not the house I live in. Reason I say this is I have never considered "equity" in my house as something to use other than to put back into the house and property. I'm saying this because seems to me having your house paid for as early as possible will definitely help in retirement.

This has been a very informative thread for me! I do think I'm a bit old now to do any investing, but younger people here should take heed. Keep out of debt the best you can! Ok, we're going to make it!

Yep, born in 1949. Not a very creative id, but I think it helps sometimes to know how old the person I'm chatting with is.

I should read and hew to my signature more often. :laughing: Investment is not my area of expertise either, I'm not sure if I have an area of expertise anymore come to think of it.

I think I have been very lucky in life. When I read about the troubles, often very expensive troubles, many folks have or had along the way, I feel like I'm leading a charmed life. I know we make some of our own luck, but that certainly doesn't account for everything. On the other side of the coin, I think some folks do have bad luck, and some make their own bad luck to a degree.

We fed our IRA's and 401k's for many years, put a lot of effort into our jobs, saved money and lived within or below our means. It does add up if you keep to it. We made some good decisions and choices along the way that helped too, and some of those were dumb luck. :)

Staying out of debt well before retiring is surely good advice to follow. I agree a home is not an investment. I picture it as an asset that needs to be protected, kept up and so forth to maintain or increase its value.

What do you think I should do with my 5 lb bag of States' Quarters? I hear they are worth 25 cents now. :laughing:
 
   / Retirement savings ....Yikes ! #380  
On a different note on what I think helped cause this housing bubble - I've always believed that the house I live in is NOT an investment. I did have an investment rental house, but that's a real housing investment, not the house I live in. Reason I say this is I have never considered "equity" in my house as something to use other than to put back into the house and property. I'm saying this because seems to me having your house paid for as early as possible will definitely help in retirement.
Why the housing bubble happened.
For many years real estate mortgages were a "SAFE" investment. The money lent was backed by a real asset that could be sold to recover the money lent if the borrower couldn't pay. What changed ? The gov't got involved. Said banks weren't lending enough money to poor people to buy a house (google Community Reinvestment Act) Banks started to lend money to all. No money down ? sure here's enough rope err money to buy a house way out of your price range. 5 years ago I was in a hospital bed watching TV at 3 AM (couldn't sleep) The program on several channels was all about flipping houses and making big money. In 2008 one could buy a house no money down with payments that took a large chunk of your pay. As long as the market was rising, no problem. One could always sell at a profit. Once the market collapsed, people were getting stuck with huge payments and no way to get out. Upside down they call it. The banks and execs at Freddy & Fanny rode the bus and made millions on mortgages. People with out any down payment or skin just walked away from their now overpriced house. Now you, the tax payer is taking the losses.
 

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