Retirement savings ....Yikes !

[Gator6x4]

Gale this is the truth...didn't use to be....it times past ...not so long ago the elderly and sick could afford whatever treatment they needed...but folks were removed from the process of negotiating for and purchasing their health care treatments....It used to be when we went to the Doc ..we waited until we were sure since we were paying for the dr. appt....we also paid for any prescription...there were not copay's...so we always negotiated the cost with the doc or drug store...the only time insurance entered the picture was if we were hospitalized the it was an 80%/20% split...on the cost....

Now since the government has entered health care in an ever increasing way...we are removed from the process of negotiating price, checking invoices or even caring what a procedure costs since the govt. madates our coverage and insurance companies decide which docs are in their group and what they will pay.

If you doubt what I am saying..next time you go to the doc. try asking him how much something will cost...LOL Then post back...LOL

If your doctor is telling you the government dictates certain procedures for treatment you had better be looking for another doctor. The medical society sets certain treatment protocols to insure proper treatment is received not the government. Trying to obtain a definitive dollar amount is impossible in car or tractor repairs. The human body is more complex that a car or tractor. I am sure any doctor can provide you with information on what his office visits costs. Now if he refers you to a specialist for treatment, how would he know what the specialist will charge or what procedure he will use. Same thing for hospital treatment. Some hospitals charge 20 dollars for an aspirin while others only charge 10. I have never asked a doctor what the total cost of something was going to cost me. If cost was a concern when it comes to my health I would not have gone to the doctor in the first place.

Most insurance companies also send out cost statements listing the cost to the insurance company and out of pocket cost for the consumer. So by reviewing one of the statements one can get a good reading on what his/her out of pocket costs were for the treatment of an illness.

 

[newbury]

Linky
Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us - TIME

and
http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

Did my second link - the PDF - not work for some?

 

[brin]

If your doctor is telling you the government dictates certain procedures for treatment you had better be looking for another doctor. The medical society sets certain treatment protocols to insure proper treatment is received not the government. Trying to obtain a definitive dollar amount is impossible in car or tractor repairs. The human body is more complex that a car or tractor. I am sure any doctor can provide you with information on what his office visits costs. Now if he refers you to a specialist for treatment, how would he know what the specialist will charge or what procedure he will use. Same thing for hospital treatment. Some hospitals charge 20 dollars for an aspirin while others only charge 10. I have never asked a doctor what the total cost of something was going to cost me. If cost was a concern when it comes to my health I would not have gone to the doctor in the first place.

Most insurance companies also send out cost statements listing the cost to the insurance company and out of pocket cost for the consumer. So by reviewing one of the statements one can get a good reading on what his/her out of pocket costs were for the treatment of an illness.

My Doc. has nothing to do with this...I did not mention him except that he went to work for a hospital...My point is if you want or need a certain procedure...such as a colonoscopy as an example...try getting a price ...or any specific procedure...just try...don't take my word for it...On procedures that have variables based on things they find or what may vary as to need...then ask them for a base price...if nothing more goes wrong...you won't get that either.

Don't tell me about this stuff ...I am old enough to remember when the Doc , hospital and all health care folks and facilities would give you a quote and a price...that is when prices were reasonable ...way before the corruption took hold....These are facts....I lived them...no rewriting history on me...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Try the second link Travelover posted, you should be able to read the article there.
http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

I would comment, but it would be another rant. Serenity Now. Thanks for posting the article.

Thanks in a way.

That article has some heavy examples of hospital/long term care costs that blew me away.

 

[dmccarty]

Dan ,

Can't you just see all the opportunities for fraud, theft and deception in our system...? As you described..you the consumer can get no answer...it is a closed pact between the insurance companies and the Docs and the hospitals know how to play them both to enrich themselves but in the end the Insurance companies have gamed the system and their CEO's are all getting huge bonuses yearly....mega millions...Docs are retiring in droves or becoming employees of hospitals ...like mine just did.

The system is setup so there is no incentive for efficiency aka minimizing costs. We don't even get an itemized list of what was billed. Our car mechanic gives us a list of what we consumed and often the broken parts. Now I don't want the broken parts back from the hospital. :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Did my second link - the PDF - not work for some?

Yes the PDF option gave me the entire article.

 

[dmccarty]

... Trying to obtain a definitive dollar amount is impossible in car or tractor repairs. The human body is more complex that a car or tractor. I am sure any doctor can provide you with information on what his office visits costs. Now if he refers you to a specialist for treatment, how would he know what the specialist will charge or what procedure he will use. Same thing for hospital treatment. ...

So you just drop your tractor or car off to be repaired without asking for an estimate?

We could not get an estimate on the surgery. NOTHING. This was for surgery that the Doc and the hospital does over and over and over. Both the doc and the hospital should be able to provide an estimate and the estimate should be pretty darned close to the final bill. This has happened through three surgeries that I can think off from two teaching hospitals. We are were at one of the hospitals last week for a procedure. We are there often enough for the doctors to know us by name and we can tell when they have upgraded the furniture. :shocked: They have the process well worked out and they run dozens of people through this one center every morning. I know that our doc was doing at least two of the same surgeries that day and since we were the last patient I think the doc did at least 3-4 other patients that morning. The hospital knows the cost of the procedure and they can give an estimate.

Later,
Dan

 

[schoolsout]

The system is setup so there is no incentive for efficiency aka minimizing costs. We don't even get an itemized list of what was billed. Our car mechanic gives us a list of what we consumed and often the broken parts. Now I don't want the broken parts back from the hospital. :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

The government also creates monopolies in the healthcare industry. There is very little competition, if any...

 

[schoolsout]

This is what is creating much of our problems today...OTC derivatives. Started in 2007/2008 with the flushing of Lehman....why other large institutions were saved after that. These "weapons of financial mass destruction" are growing larger. Banks are hiding them off their balance sheets a la Enron style. The government is condoning it because there is nothing else they can do. If you have any faith left in this system we are currently stuck in, I suggest you reassess the situation.

Today Jim Sinclair warned King World News that something clearly has Western central banks terrified right now. Below is what Sinclair, who was once called on by former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker to assist during a Wall Street crisis, had to say.


Eric King: “Jim, Bloomberg had a story headlining on their site over the weekend claiming that depositors may lose as much as 60% on deposits in Cyprus.”

Sinclair: “This is all because of the one quadrillion dollars in derivatives that are in the financial system. Six years ago the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) at that time reported that the amount of derivatives already outstanding exceeded one quadrillion dollars. This number is unimaginable to most human beings.

But that is the actual number (over one quadrillion dollars). They never should have released that number because it created a bit of panic. Central planners immediately changed the accounting method for derivatives and this appeared to bring the total amount down to under $700 billion. So through the use of an accounting gimmick the total was reduced, but it hasn’t changed the frightening reality of what the world is facing....

rest at link...

My Blog

 

[Gator6x4]

I did not say I did not request an estimate or ball park estimate. This applies to vehicle costs as well as health costs. I have seen people go ballistic both in medical facilities and vehicle repair locations when the ACTUAL bill exceeded the estimate.

All Doctors bill for services rendered by using codes. The codes they use are ICD-9,ICD-10, CPT or HCPCS. You can purchase a Code Book, the same one used by doctors, right off the Internet.

Coding for procedures is a good paying field to be in, in the medical profession. Coders take information from doctors and staff, complete the necessary form and submit to either, Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance carriers.

Each carrier negotiates the amount they will pay for a specific procedure. So asking a doctor to provide an exact penny cost for a procedure is something they can not answer until they hear back from your insurance carrier, Medicare or Medicaid.

Most doctors can provide a fairly accurate cost of what an individuals co-pay will be. Modern day insurance cards also contain the cost for a primary care or specialist visit. Now if one strolls into the emergency room for health care the cost is going to be astronomical. My wife recently awoke late one night with a severe pain in her left shoulder and arm. The emergency room visit cost over $1,400. Her co-pay was $50.00. She was advised to see her primary care for follow up. The primary care cost $85.00. Her co-pay at the primary care was $5.00.

So her cost was/is $55.00, actual and factual. Now if she did not have insurance determining her out of pocket cost would be a little more difficult to determine.