Cutting an access road on a slope

Sebculb · Jan 23, 2013

Hello, does anyone have any pointers on how to cut an access road/driveway going across and up a somewhat steep slope? Attached are a couple pics of the slope that I happened to have around to kind of give a better idea of the situation. The one that has the tractor backed uphill on a cockeyed angle is pretty much exactly the path the driveway is going to take, we were digging out a pesky tree stump with the backhoe right then, lots more pesky tree stumps to dig out still... Since then I've dragged a lot of sawlogs down that way so its becoming a compacted path of sorts.

Eventually this is going to be the driveway to a house site a little further up, itｴll probably be about 40-50 meters long or so when done. Like I said, its becoming a sort of navigable compacted sorta smoothed out pathway, but it remains really cockeyed and itｴll have to be leveled out side to side before itｴll be a suitable driveway for the family SUV. The tractor is kind of new to me and Iｴm still learning how to drive it, and every time I try to level the road out or clean it up I make a worse mess of things.

All weｴre working with is the Kubota with the loader and the backhoe (and hand tools), donｴt have access to any grader blades or box blades or any of the other attachments that are commonly used to make roads. The tractorｴs pretty light so at first whenever I tried to do any scraping or grading with the loader bucket it would just skip around on top without actually doing anything, and if I tried to really dig it in then it was making a hole and not smoothing anything out. Have since welded a tooth-bar/rake thing and bolted it to the loader and that makes it much more effective for scraping up a top layer of dirt in an orderly manner. Havenｴt really adressed the driveway issue again since installing it, though. Right next to the tractor shed is a flat spot where I could begin from to try and make a controlled level scrape with my new improved tooth bar loader, but that would be working uphill, which I dunno if thatｴs how things are customarily done. Itｴd also be tricky. Iｴve thought about going up backwards and using the backhoe to scrape dirt off the uphill side, which could work, but thereｴs a big possibility of just making a mess too. Iｴve seen bulldozers a lot bigger than my 23hp tractor make roads around here, and they usually go downhill and they also have a plow blade that adjusts its angle to compensate for slope and grade properly and stuff, its a much bigger, different piece of machinery.

I donｴt have a lot of experience driving this thing yet and none with any other types of machinery, and Iｴm finding its waaay more difficult to grade something flat than it is to just dig a big hole and carry the dirt away. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it.

bcp · Jan 23, 2013

I did about 200 feet on a slightly steeper sidehill using my BX. The two biggest helps were a good toothbar, and keeping a level place to work from.

Dig about half a bucket (left or right side) and dump it on the opposite side. Repeat a couple of times, then drag or push with the bucket to smooth it some. Pack it down with a front wheel. Repeat for hours.

Once I had a level path, left to right. I used a box blade to lower the high spots and fill the low spots.

I had rocks up to 2 ft diameter, but no stumps.

Bruce

Verticaltrx · Jan 24, 2013

A few tips:

-I like to work going up hill when possible, it's tougher going but safer.

-Basically a road along a hillside can be thought of as a shelf, you have to cut it out of the hillside

-You can start the cut at the bottom with the backhoe, dig away from the upper side and place dirt on the lower side to get a nice level area to start. Then if the digging isn't too tough use the loader to continue digging away at the upper edge and placing the dirt on the lower edge, compacting with the tires as you work your way up the hillside. If the digging is tough you may have to use the backhoe for a majority of the work.

-With a loader and backhoe you have the perfect tool for building a small hillside road, a box blade, scraper blade, etc are only good for the final finishing and not needed for this basic task.

Take a look at this thread I made awhile back on this subject: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/197254-road-building-compact-utility-tractor.html

MotorSeven · Jan 24, 2013

I agree with Vertical, without a box blade w/rippers, I think I'd just use the backhoe to dig & level the road bed working up hill. Then come back and scrape it with the bucket. It will be time consuming( a few days), but you will be able to get the road level and consistent in width that way. Also don't forget when putting the finishing touches you can back drag the lip of the bucket in "float" mode which makes it all pretty smooth.

Egon · Jan 24, 2013

When dumping your bucket try and keep the front wheels at right angles to the slope or as close as reality allows and keep the bucket low. Also watch out for the outside shoulder being soft. If you get onto it and parallel there could be an Oopsie. In the event things get tense drop the bucket and steer down slope.

Proficiency takes time.

But it will happen without you noticing.:thumbsup:

Sebculb · Jan 24, 2013

Wow, Guys, thanks lot for all the information. I really appreciate it and it'll help a lot. Especially that other thread, Verticaltrx; lotsa good info and pics there.

I´m gonna try to make the whole thing a shelf, rather than put the fill on the downside. It'll be a pain in the butt to back down each time with a bucketfull, but I can really use the fill in some other spots on the property where we're filling and leveling some depressions. Also, I´m going to be cultivating right below the road so I don´t want a bunch of loose fill piled up making the access difficult as well as washing down onto the crops. It rains a lot (like monsoon) here, so its also better to dig down to "tierra firme" if you want anything to really stay put.

Thanks again for the info, keep it coming!

dave1949 · Jan 24, 2013

Don't forget to plan for run-off and drainage.

I think I would use your backhoe to cut into the high side of the slope and pile the dirt in what will become the middle of your driveway. Then level that out with your FEL bucket. You might have to take multiple passes at this as CUT backhoes don't have much reach. If so, then begin with the pass that is farthest out from the driveway. You will have to move the dirt twice, but that is nature of small equipment.

You might want to dig deep enough while doing that to create a drainage ditch on the up-slope side. Be bold and dig deep to give yourself enough material to work with.

Ed of all trades · Jan 24, 2013

It can be done easly with a plow and a rear blade. Plow a furough on the up hill side throwing the dirt into the road, and then grade with the blade. If the hill is steeper you might have to plow several times on the up hill side to get the road "level".

schmism · Jan 24, 2013

the man has a backhoe.....

set the machine up backwards, dig from the uphill side, put it on the downhill side. move tractor backward.

rinse and repeat.

Sebculb · Jan 25, 2013

Thanks! We're picking beans right now (a lot of them, we're beaners) so I won't get to play with the road for a few days. Gotta pick them before the pods get too dry in the sun or else they pop open and drop the beans all over the place. I´ll post up how the road's going when I get to work on it again. Thanks again for all the advice, I´m sure everything will go a lot smoother now.

Gary Fowler · Jan 25, 2013

I agree with you on not using the dirt to build up the low side, just cut into the hill enough so you have a nice wide road bed. Soft spoils on the down slope is not good news for a TLB. Be sure you make the cut plenty wide so you have room for a drainage ditch on the uphill side and still have plenty wide to drive your vehicles up without danger of slipping off the side of the hill or into the drainage ditch. I would shoot for at least a 15 foot wide road bed, 20 would be better while allowing 4 feet for ditch maintenance on uphill side. While that may seem like a wide road, you will be amazed at how narrow it might become when travelling up it with a trailer on your vehicle on a wet surface.
I would put a slight slope of the road bed into the hill to drain your road into the ditch and also keep you from sliding toward the downhill side should you get into trouble with a wet slick road. YOU DONT Want to slip off the downhill side. I wouldnt put much of a ditch in the uphill side if any at all as mother nature will help you with that when it rains. If you slope the road a half inch to the foot on a 12 foot wide road that would put the uphill side 6" lower than the downhill side which would be plenty and maybe too much, maybe 1/4" to the foot would be enough. If you have some gravel or rocks I would put those in the ditch to slow down the run off and stop the erosion.
DONT try to eyeball the level of the road. Make your self a long level to check grade with . I would just use a straight 2x4 x 8foot or longer and fasten a minimum of a 2 foot level to it. Keep a ground man to check your grade as you go to keep it somewhat on the plane that you want. You could fasten the 2 foot level to the 2x4with a 1/2" thick wedge under one end so the slope is built in and then just read the bubble as level and you have your slope, just make sure the ground man keeps the high end toward the downhill side of the slope.

ovrszd · Jan 25, 2013

You gotta think REALLY big. As mentioned above, go wide. You should have a drainage area on the uphill side, off the roadbed, as wide as your tractor. When you think about that, you'll realize you are going to disrupt the upper hill side at least 20 feet above the roadbed to get a gentle bank slope and leave a drainage ditch. I don't like a narrow steep sided drainage ditch. it will do one of two things, immediatly silt full or become a deep gully. You don't want either. When you think you've got it built right, wait for a runoff rain. Be onsight for that and watch where the water goes and make adjustments accordingly. NO WATER should run across your roadbed, NONE. If that can't be avoided you will need to add a drainage tube under the road to get rid of that runoff. I wouldn't be so picky about this if you were just building a seasonal access road. But you said you are going to build a house up there. Gotta be able to get out under any weather situation.

Good to see you are involving your children. The only way children learn about machinery is by growing up around it, and eventually operating it. Good luck with your project and post pictures when you get started. Hope your harvest is going well and the crops yielded high!!!

dwessel · Mar 15, 2013

I've been working on a similar project lately, taking what was a walking path from our upper lots down to our driveway and house and starting to make what will eventually be a continuation of the driveway. While I would have preferred working uphill, the easier and more available access was working down hill.

While I have the benefit of a box scraper, I don't have the benefit of a backhoe. In any event, the majority of my work was done with the loader. To me, the key either way is creating an initial level area for the tractor to start at so that when using the bucket to dig into the hill side, you can continue to create a level cut area and then dump to the other side to fill and/or build a protective berm. To do so, I used a technique similar to what others suggested, dump the load and then use downward pressure from the bucket while moving forward to pack and push the dirt out towards the edge. This allowed me to keep the majority of the tractor on solid (cut) ground until the dirt became packed down for more solid driving.

Here's the start after the first day:

The next working day after installing a drainage pipe"

Continuing to bridge a gap that was probably 60% fill:

But be careful when working on areas of mostly fresh fill!!! As I my tractor was on the area that was predominantly fill and I started to use the loader to cut into solid hillside, the rest of the tractor started to pivot towards the soft outer edge. Even though I immediately dropped the load, the tractor had shifted and dug enough into the soft soil to where even with 4WD, the tractor could not get out and wanted to continue to shift towards the soft edge and certain doom.

Trying to use the bucket to push my way out did not work either. So, another vehicle with a winch was necessary.

After a solid rain that helped settle and compact the fill, I was ready to begin again. This time, as I added fill to the edge and packed it down, I was extra careful to keep the tractor tires on more solid ground and used fill to build a safety berm.

This is where I started last weekend.

In progress:

The view and perspective of how steep the slope is that I'm working on:

End of the day:

Now I just have to deal with continuing to work my way down through decomposing granite!!!

ultrarunner · Apr 8, 2013

Any progress on the roads?

David Devuono · Apr 8, 2013

With 8 inches of snow expected this week, I can only dream of building some new roads to nowhere.

Dr_Zinj · Apr 8, 2013

California hillsides and water don't go together well.

ultrarunner · Apr 8, 2013

All depends on what it is made of...

I have lots of clay and my neighbor on the other side of the ridge... across the street could open a gravel quarry!

Not fair that I get mud and every scoop on his side crushed gravel...

dwessel · Apr 8, 2013

Dr_Zinj said:
California hillsides and water don't go together well.

Dr. Zinj,

Depends on the California hillside ... and the amount of water!!! Fortunately or unfortunately, my land has a lot of decomposed granite with only about 0-2' of top soil. So, while the granite tends to break easily after rain, it generally remains pretty solid. Also makes for a good spread across the dirt road.