Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...?????

   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #71  

I think we ought to pass a law that requires prenatal schooling. Simply attach electrodes from your I Pod to the stomach of the expectant mother, and play educational materials, such as "Triumph of the Will", re-runs of Sesame Street starring Michelle O.; and maybe some of the State of the Union speeches. The sky's the limit.
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #72  
I think the entire point of the exercise is to challenge with something that seems deeply wrong. What good would it do to have him stomp on something he does not feel strongly about? It there were Muslims the word most likely be Mohamad but keep in mind that they view Jesus as a profit and may also object to stomping on it.

One can not broaden the mind without challenging what is already there.

A difference of opinion I conclude. If I read you correctly, you endorse not only the lesson, but the methods of the instructor and presumably would be willing to face the slings and arrows that would would, in all probability, come your way.

I have no problem with the lesson and the mental exercise it is intended to provoke; I just think there is a less self-destructive and less controversial methodology, that I my self would use to accomplish the same thing.
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #73  
Is this a guess?
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #75  
dave1949 said:
The "stomp on Jesus" news story I found involved Florida Atlantic University college students in an intercultural communications class.
Florida school apologizes after students stomp on 'Jesus' - U.S. News

"[Florida Gov.] Scott cited news reports indicating students were told by the class instructor to write "Jesus" in large letters on a sheet of paper and to place the paper on the floor in front of them. The students were given a brief time of reflection and then were told to step on the paper and tell the class how they felt."

Here is an interview with the professor:
Interview with professor at center of 'Jesus' debate at Florida Atlantic | Inside Higher Ed

Here is what the student says about it:
FAU Student Claims He Was Suspended For Refusing To Step On Jesus « CBS Miami

I am concerned that a college professor following a published course exercise became the victim of the Christian Mafia. We have separation of church and state, but the Gov. of Florida takes time to criticize a professor and college for being insensitive to religion. Freedom cuts in all directions.

In any case, the story has little to do with K-12 public schools indoctrinating children.

Why use a disrespectful term like that, Dave?
 
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   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #76  
I think we ought to pass a law that requires prenatal schooling. Simply attach electrodes from your I Pod to the stomach of the expectant mother, and play educational materials, such as "Triumph of the Will", re-runs of Sesame Street starring Michelle O.; and maybe some of the State of the Union speeches. The sky's the limit.

Come on... your knuckles are gonna get bloody draggin' along the ground like that! :laughing:

We paid for (yep... outta our own pockets) preschool attendance for our kids. It wasn't available in the public school system (still isn't).

My wife and I spent a lot of volunteering in our local K-6 school. I worked a salary job and could grab a half-day here and there when necessary and take care of what I needed to at work on weekends or after hours. My wife worked part-time; so, that's what we did.

The majority of teacher's that we worked with came from every political compass point but, there was one basic, core similarity -- they worked hard to keep the kids in their care -- excited about learning and believing in themselves! Before class, after class - on weekends. Drive by the school parking lot and there would be any number of the teacher's cars parked there!

If you're REALLY WORRIED that the schools in your area are gonna practice "mind-meld" techniques on your kids - go... go sit in the classroom. Please. Spend some time with the teacher's and their aides. Help your kid and their school friends with their projects in class.

You just might be pleasantly surprised that a majority of the local teachers and administrators are not a bunch of "cursed, liberal aliens" out to warp and twist the minds of kids.. but, really more or less like yourself and your wife.

Trying to do their best... with what they're given and within the confines of all the laws and legal consructs that they have to work within.

Go and learn yourself - first hand. It's all too easy to sit back and throw rocks (or brickbats) at something -- especially if you don't know much about what you're criticizing.

AKfish
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #77  
A difference of opinion I conclude. If I read you correctly, you endorse not only the lesson, but the methods of the instructor and presumably would be willing to face the slings and arrows that would would, in all probability, come your way.

I have no problem with the lesson and the mental exercise it is intended to provoke; I just think there is a less self-destructive and less controversial methodology, that I my self would use to accomplish the same thing.

I think setting up the situation where you ask the student to make the choice is not going too far. Forcing the student to stomp would be very wrong. It has to be their choice even if they make it due to peer pressure. If I understand what they are trying to achieve then one should expect some students to stomp and others not. Either way it is a mind expanding learning experience.

After the act, or lack of it, one can discuss how intent and perception enters into the act of stomping. How the addition of the text changes what the paper is, or not. And I expect the students will not be sleeping and that is no little thing.

I do not see this as self destructive unless you are talking about the teacher getting the boot. For the student is should be a constructive learning experience.

Personally I would not have the guts or stupidly to try this at anything short of the university level and then only in a class where it had some bearing on the subject matter. Self exploration or religious studies come to mind.
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #78  
Why is the word "Firearms" not in the educators dictionaries? A firearm not used in your above descriptions is not a weapon, IT'S A FIREARM. Then again the college student in Texas yesterday was using a knife and not a weapon then, correct?
Would your hand, car or baseball bat be a weapon then? People have been prosecuted for using these as a weapon. A weapon is anything used in an aggressive or defensive fashion.
Unless there is a lib in the room.

Again, in my opinion:)

arms

Arms \Arms\, n. pl. [OE. armes, F. arme, pl. armes, fr. L. arma,
pl., arms, orig. fittings, akin to armus shoulder, and E.
arm. See Arm, n.]
1. Instruments or weapons of offense or defense.

He lays down his arms, but not his wiles. --Milton.

Three horses and three goodly suits of arms.
--Tennyson.

2. The deeds or exploits of war; military service or science.
``Arms and the man I sing.'' --Dryden.

3. (Law) Anything which a man takes in his hand in anger, to
strike or assault another with; an aggressive weapon
.
--Cowell. Blackstone.

4. (Her.) The ensigns armorial of a family, consisting of
figures and colors borne in shields, banners, etc., as
marks of dignity and distinction, and descending from
father to son.

5. (Falconry) The legs of a hawk from the thigh to the foot.
--Halliwell.
arms
arms
n 1: weapons considered collectively [syn: weaponry, implements
of war, weapons system, munition
]
2: (heraldry) the official symbols of a family, state, etc.
[syn: coat of arms, blazon, blazonry]

It is clear that arms has the same problems as its synonym weapons. I fail to see an agenda. It has nothing to do with liberal agenda.

In fact weapons is a synonym of arms. Now did the founding fathers mean our right to bear arms is the right to bear all weaponry, implements of war and all weapons systems? And at what age did they give us this right? It is clearly not made very clear and the history of this issue in the courts is all the evidence needed. It's intended meaning has long been debated by many including Constituional Scholars, politicians and Supreme Courts Judges. A literal interpretation would have to support the right of a 6 year old to possess a vial of anthrax and a fully automatic gun. The challenge is to draw the line in the best place.

The concern stated over the substtution of a synonym is an attempt to make a poltical mountain out of a mole hill.

This topic should have been presented in the politics area...not here.

Loren

ps: deranged person attacked many in Texas...how many fatalities??? Various deranged people with many fatalities in other areas....what was the difference??? Any prediction of outcome if most recent attacker preffered different arms/ weapons (not to be redundant!)
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #79  
Loran49,

Again if a FIREARM is not used in an aggressive or defensive manner such as sporting or pleasure shooting, then why do you automatically consider it a weapon? You keep turning it to something evil. That's like someone instantly jumping to the conclusion that butter knife you use for dinner is a weapon when it's only used with butter.

Please stop trying to change the wording of the Bill of Rights to imply something different. It should be taught with its correct wording, not someone else's.
 
   / Our Kids belong to everyone ....collectively...????? #80  
Why use a disrespectful term like that, Dave?

Well, I shouldn't answer in respect to forum rules, but I will give it one shot in a way I hope is respectful of all. Feel free to respond, but I won't say anymore about it.

Why? Because I fear the consequences of rampant religious extremism.

From my perspective as primarily a humanist (Humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and the perspective of our Constitution, power concentrated in the hands of a religious sect is a dangerous thing.

This step on "Jesus" case is an example. People are apologizing and in fear of losing their job because members of a religious sect were offended by the way an icon of their beliefs was used. In fact, by our laws and Constitution, no special status or rights are granted to any religion other than the right to practice it freely. Imposing or forcing your beliefs on others is not freely practicing your religion.

How much farther would this need to progress to become equivalent to the actions of the Taliban, or of Hindus burning the homes of Muslims? I don't think we are that far away from such extremism.

A significant component of Christian adherents in the US have never accepted or honored the difference between constitutional religious freedoms, and "Onward Christian Soldiers" and their religious duty to promote their faith. This is what I refer to as the Christian Mafia.
 

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