Loader Space required to use tractor indoors

[dgeesaman]

One of the wants I'm looking for in a tractor is the ability to handle <1000lb lg square hay bales. I'm leaning toward a used TC35D or TC40D with counterweighting of course, SSQA bale forks in this case.

We want to store the bales in the back half of the utility building 85' long x 35' wide. Crushed stone floor. I'm hoping to stack on pallets 3 high x 5 deep and 3 wide. How much room will I require in front of the bales to pick and maneuver out of the building? How much space should I leave between the end bales and side of the building? Based on my research, the regular steer is pretty tight turn, but would Supersteer be worth it?

It probably sounds like a dumb question: (answer: "as long as the tractor, plus more"), so keep in mind this is my first tractor, first small farm, first time keeping horses for myself. I will be happy to take my time and not punch a hole in the wall. How much more than the length of the tractor + bale on the forks is required?

 

[jinman]

Luckily for you, the TC35D or TC40D have the brake pedals on the left side (where God intended ). You can easily use differential braking to make that tractor turn on a dime. I do it with my TC45D all the time. If you use a boxblade on the rear (a short implement with lots of weight) and have loaded rear tires, you'll have the best setup with a bale spear on the FEL. You'll find it much easier to turn with 4wd NOT engaged. However, if your bales are heavy and you don't have rear ballast, your rears will be so light that you just might have severe understeer. Your total load length with a bale and boxblade is probably going to be close to 20'. I would want at least 5' (1/4 the loaded length) to maneuver and 10' would be ideal in my opinion. If I was designing so I could let somebody not a skilled operator do the bale moving, I'd want 12' for easy turning. Even then, on the approach, it might take at least one backup and two approaches to get the tractor straight to the bale for pickup. I'd also allow a minimum of 2' on each side for turning and consider that as just minimum. You don't want to get into a situation where you are trying to maneuver with a bale high in the air. That's an accident waiting to happen for even a skilled operator. With the TC35/40 and 16LA, you can unload two high round bales off a flatbed trailer/truck with care. Three squares as you've described would probably be the highest for that class of tractor. I've never handled big squares, so I can't say for sure.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I would stack it in such a way that you start filling the length up, then change your stacking direction to comes towards the middle of the building, An important question would also be, where is your door located in relationship to the building. Meaning, is it centered or offset?

 

[dgeesaman]

jinman,

Thanks for your thoughts. Some things there I hadn't considered.

As for unloading from the truck, I'm inclined to pay a hay vendor to bring their skidsteer and do the unloading and stacking for us. They don't have to watch me bumble through it, and a skid steer should be faster. Hay guys who deliver horse-quality lg sq bales have to be used to this. So in that case the max stack I'd have to handle is 3 high off the ground, not off the trailer.

Long term I'm thinking of concreting the entire floor and buying a used forklift if we are happy with the quality and price of large squares. Then the maneuverability and safety are much better.

RNR, the building has a single large door centered on the 35' end. Obviously the center 15' will have to stay permanently open. My first inclination was to stack the full width of the far 35' end and just work toward the middle of the building. That way the hay dust tends to stay in back. Another option is to stack along the length of one 85' wall and always use the center aisle for handling space. That might save space since I would really prefer to keep as much machinery indoors as possible.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Why not just back out instead of turning around?

 

[dgeesaman]

I don't think there was any discussion of turning around. There's only one door and there will be other equipment in the building - so backing straight out was never an option.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I don't think there was any discussion of turning around. There's only one door and there will be other equipment in the building - so backing straight out was never an option.

OK. It would be for me tho because I would arrange to allow for it with the slightest of turning.
larry

 

[dgeesaman]

Sounds like a good reason for a newer, larger building with a full-width door, just for hay. Then the utility building can be just for equipment, cars, and tools. I like that idea as much as I can't afford it. :thumbsup:

 

[camshawn]

Friend across the road parked his ride on lawn mower in with the hay in a lean too along the back of his garage last Saturday. The resulting fire took out the hay, a restored ranchero, all of the bits and pieces from his Parents estates and all his tools. He is self employes so that slowed business for him for a few days. Hay and machinery do not mix well sometimes.
Cam

 

[dgeesaman]

Thanks, we're well aware of the issues of storing hay (anywhere). Ideally hay gets its own storage building, but we don't have that yet. Frankly I'm thrilled to simply get the hay out of the horse barn and in a separate building. Most small horse farms don't even have that. Insured equipment is highly inconvenient but also replaceable. Our horses involve years of training and they're good souls so there is not replacement.

Fortunately, hay for horses (especially with our horse keeping philosophy) must be high quality stuff, and so buying uncured hay is not an option. Once inside the building, it should not get wet and if it does we will have hay quality as well as fire risk to worry about. It does give me pause to consider whether I should invest in a long probe thermometer just to keep an eye on things.

 

[RobertN]

Have you considered a skidsteer or compact-track loader?

The work you describe is exactly why the skidsteer was invented up in North Dakota(have read the "Bobcat Story" a couple times; very interesting how they were developed forworking in barns on ranches).

New Page 1
Our Story - Bobcat Company

 

[dgeesaman]

My tasks will be: plow driveway, move lg. sq bales, drag arenas, turn over and move the manure pile, move trailers, and maybe rear finish mowing. Lg sq bale handling is a lower priority (we'll start with 50lb small bales), but I want to be sure that it can be done.

Both will do most of those tasks, and the skidsteer will be quite agile for these tasks, but I think it won't be as versatile in the end and harder on the turf. Both will cost about the same ($15k-18k) in a package that can lift these loads. To be honest I looked at the skidsteer option but did not consider as a whole replacement for a tractor - would that truly be an option?

If I was going to spend $15k on this large bale thing, I like the idea of adding $10k in concrete floor to the building and a $5k forklift over a skidsteer in the existing gravel-floor building.

 

[RobertN]

I've put a bunch of hours on skidsteers(I like compact track loader better "CTL"). The thing I found, is that they have TONS of implements, but they are much more expensive than a compact utility tractor. CUT's and SS/CTL do overlap in ability, but both have tasks they really shine in.

The price of implements is mostly reason I have a CUT instead of a CTL

 

[jinman]

The price of implements is mostly reason I have a CUT instead of a CTL

I absolutely agree. Also, with a tractor, you can easily move two bales at once with a rear and front mounted spear. Being able to use two implements at once and the cost of implements are two reasons we don't all own skidsteers or CTLs.

Dgeesaman: An old forklift on a concrete floor would make bale handling inside the barn a snap. Almost all forklifts could handle a bale without even breathing heavily. The other reason for going to concrete & forklift is dust control. Once the crushed stone inside a barn drys out, you will raise a cloud of dust just walking around, even more driving a tractor with 4 wheels and a down-pointing exhaust. Lots of dust comes in from outside. With concrete, you can sweep it up or run a shop vacuum. With gravel, you just can't efficiently control the dust unless you wet down the floor. That would raise the humidity inside your barn and cause problems with your hay probably. I see crushed rock as a temporary solution until you can afford a concrete floor. Dust in a barn is always a problem even with the best of conditions. Weekly maid service is probably out of the question.

 

[dgeesaman]

Concrete is the perfect answer for everything. It's on my "list" of projects that would step up this property, and who knows when it may happen. Tying the concrete project to the hay handling will help it get done, and make it a solid rationale for including it in the horse business expenses, so... we'll see.

Interesting about the implement pricing. I hadn't done any shopping for CTL implements. Since they are less common and generally only commercial end users, it's understandable that the costs are above what us regular Joe's can justify.

 

[ironpen]

I am not trying to be a smarta**....but why don't you just leave it outside? Nobody in Alabama that I know of puts round bales indoors. If you want to cover them, you can, but it's not necessary. Maybe the difference in weather here and in Pa. makes a difference?? I would like to hear your thoughts on that. I travel to Montana in winter to hunt....and they all have them outside as well. Have you considered leaving it outside? Again, I am not trying to be a wise guy....I am just interested in your reasoning.

 

[dgeesaman]

Short answer: I have horses so that's not an option.

Long answer: I'm not a hay expert, but what I do know is that round bales you see in the fields are for cattle and other animals that will eat most any grade of hay. They have a tolerance for mold and partially fermented material. Round bales stored in the field will work.

So horse hay has to be relatively high quality, fully cured, and stored indoors. Horses will never eat moldy or fermented hay and you wouldn't want them to if it was there. I've never seen round bales done to this level of quality. The options for horse hay is large square bales or small square bales.

If you feed a lower grade of hay than normal to the horses they will simply pull it apart and leave it on the ground unless they're starving. Or instead of hay on the ground, there will be a colicking horse on the ground.

 

[aczlan]

So horse hay has to be relatively high quality, fully cured, and stored indoors. Horses will never eat moldy or fermented hay and you wouldn't want them to if it was there. I've never seen round bales done to this level of quality. The options for horse hay is large square bales or small square bales.

I have seen it done, but it is not usually done as most horse people don't have the capacity to handle round bales, don't want to deal with stacking/handling them, or can't find decent quality round bales.

If you feed a lower grade of hay than normal to the horses they will simply pull it apart and leave it on the ground unless they're starving. Or instead of hay on the ground, there will be a colicking horse on the ground.

Yep.

Aaron Z

 

[nwltruck]

Why can't you use a fork lift on gravel? Many are built to run on gravel.

 

[dgeesaman]

Why can't you use a fork lift on gravel? Many are built to run on gravel.

I briefly researched it and did not see the option. That would be a great option - can you suggest how to tell which ones are made for it? (Keep in mind a $5k budget for used)

David