Heading for the finish line...

[Wile E Kioti]

Last night I posted the following in the general forum and one of the members suggested re-posting in this forum, so here goes:

Hello, I am a tractor newbie heading to the tractor purchase finish line and looking for any final thoughts anyone would care to share before I pull the trigger. I spent the better part of the past two days testing out and pricing Kubota, Mahindra, and Kioti CUT's. I am seriously leaning towards the Kioti CK30HST with loader and backhoe- it seems to be the biggest bang for the buck and user friendly to a tractor novice. My only concern and holdup is the the issue of the sticking HST pedal issue that I have read about on this forum (referred to as creeping). I asked the Kioti dealer I visited today about this issue and he acknowledged his awareness of it, but stated- "it is not a problem". He went on to say the issue has been isolated to an O-ring of sorts attached to a spindle that comes off the transmission and attached to the pedal, which can be prone to rusting if not kept lubricated; this allegedly leads to an inability for the pedal to spring back to neutral. He claimed that periodically squirting some lubricant on the O-ring renders it a non-issue. Is he glossing over a bigger problem, or have there just been a few unfortunate forum members that got a lemon? I hope to make my decision by Tuesday and place an order for the Kioti or one of the other brands. Thanks in advance for any feedback you can provide.

 

[murphy1244]

Love the picture, A couple of posters had problems that led to a HST problem but that has been a while ago.

 

[Wile E Kioti]

Thanks Murph. I see you have a Kioti DK40- I actually thought about just moving up to the DK40SE HST to take this whole issue out of play, but it is physically too large for my use and probably more $$ than I can justify even if it wasn't.

 

[kiotiken]

Interesting that he admits to knowing about the problem. My CK30 had the problem and my dealer replaced the HST in order to fix it. I don't know about an O-ring, but there are two pressure ports under the floor and my dealer took pressure readings from them. The pressure readings were low and my dealer said that was consistent with what they'd seen before. They said the only fix is to replace the HST. After it was replaced, the issue was gone and didn't come back by the time I traded the tractor.

 

[Illini22]

I have had no problems with my hst ck35 (yet). Love it so far.

 

[Wile E Kioti]

Thanks for the feedback kiotiken and Illini22. Your varying experiences would suggest a hit or miss proposition for a new purchaser. :confused3:

 

[VictorW]

I've had my CK30hst with fl and bh since April 2005 and now have @ 550 hours. It's plowed snow, avg 100 inches/year, every Winter and other work in the rest of the year. I do and have done so oiled the shaft that goes into the tranny from the hst pedal every Spring and Fall along with the required normal maintenance. I believe this is the shaft the dealer person mentioned. My tractor has never had creep and the pedal still works like when I purchased it. Maybe I'm just lucky or oiling that shaft has kept mine trouble free. Good luck on your decision. I'm sure whichever you pick to buy will serve you well.

 

[Wile E Kioti]

Vic, thanks for sharing your experience...it brings to mind a famous quote from Benjamin Franklin- “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” You have smartly maintained your asset and it appears to have served you well as a result.

 

[94BULLITT]

My tractor and I believe kiotikens tractor both did had the sticking pedal at around 60hrs. There is not much room for a lack of maintence with that low of hours. My 50hr service was done right on 50hrs.

 

[Wile E Kioti]

94Bullitt, thanks for pointing out that you experienced the sticky pedal issue early on in the life of your tractor. I hope that my prior post was not interpreted as a proclamation that poor maintenance contributed to the issues with your tractor or of the others- that was certainly not my intent. I was just extending kudos to Vic for his maintenance efforts and good fortune.

 

[94BULLITT]

94Bullitt, thanks for pointing out that you experienced the sticky pedal issue early on in the life of your tractor. I hope that my prior post was not interpreted as a proclamation that poor maintenance contributed to the issues with your tractor or of the others- that was certainly not my intent. I was just extending kudos to Vic for his maintenance efforts and good fortune.

No problem. I just wanted to be sure that you understood that this was not cause from a lack of maintenance.

 

[Wile E Kioti]

Yes, thanks.

 

[Pierrepont]

If the pedal sticks, for whatever reason, I know that centering the hydro pedal brings the tractor to a stop.

Would the brake pedals also bring the tractor to a stop?

 

[kiotiken]

My tractor and I believe kiotikens tractor both did had the sticking pedal at around 60hrs. There is not much room for a lack of maintence with that low of hours. My 50hr service was done right on 50hrs.

Yup, I think mine might have lasted to 75 hrs. My dealer includes the 50 hr service with the tractor so he came over and did it plus my CK30 was a little "special" and had almost weekly visits from my dealer in the first year for one thing or another. Wile E, I know you're not saying it's lack of maintenance, but as Roger said, for the sake of clarity now and for future readers, no amount of maintenance will prevent the hst creep on these machines.

 

[kiotiken]

If the pedal sticks, for whatever reason, I know that centering the hydro pedal brings the tractor to a stop.

Would the brake pedals also bring the tractor to a stop?

Mine got to the point that it would drive clear across my property with no foot on the pedal before it was fixed. It may have progressively gotten worse, but by the time it was fixed, I would have been able to stop it easily with the brakes. From what he's said, I believe 94Bullitt's was worse.

 

[Pierrepont]

So to summarize what is (kind of) known to this point:

- The sticky/lazy hydro pedal concern is random. Some machines experience it, many (most?) do not. It seems to be the "luck of the draw".

- There seems to be two symptoms: #1). Creeping hydro is when tractor is stopped but the machine wants to creep a little. This can be controlled by setting the brake. #2). Machine is being driven and when the operator lifts his/her foot the pedal
does not immediately spring back to the center position. This can be controlled by the operator moving the pedal to the center position. The hydro pedal is not suddenly LOCKED in any position.

- Some machines with regular lubrication of the hydro linkage/spring parts seem to be fine. Others, even with regular maintenance, may have some internal hydro pressure malfunction that no amount of lubrication will address.

The information so far points to the operator needing to be alert to this sticking/lazy pedal problem and always be prepared to operate the pedal as a true treadle pedal with BOTH toes and heel always placed on the pedal rocking the pedal in the direction
needed to maintain control. It's an extra step that the operator has to adapt to. (unlike other model hydro machines). Kind of like having to use the clutch on a gear machine.

Not ideal but manageable.

 

[murphy1244]

So its like .000000001% of product failure?

 

[Wile E Kioti]

Great feed back from all...thanks. Pierrepont, nice summary! So, it appears that it comes down to whether I feel lucky (gamble?), or not, and whether I can live with manual intervention of the pedal if it does not return to neutral automatically. And I thought my purchase decision was going to be based primarily on the dealer and price, since there is little to choose between the best of these CUT's. :confused2:

 

[kiotiken]

So its like .000000001% of product failure?

I couldn't find the exact number in last months Kioti newsletter, but I'll take a wild guess that it's 20%-50% and that most ignore it or don't care. I'm going to stick with my completely unscientific diagnostic that it's caused by pushing the hydro to hard, like road travel in high range with the BH up hills in my case. The smaller framed CK20 and CT122 and McCormick X10.?? and Landini ?? don't seem to have the problem and they don't weigh nearly the same, especially when you load the tires. I think it's a combination of the weight of the machine is too much for the HST and the way the operator operates the machine. I'm not saying people are abusing their machines, just that some of us are a little more aggressive than others when we're trying to get stuff done. Road travel, pushing into the pile to get as much in the bucket as possible, using a box blade to the point it stops the machine etc. I really think if you push the hst in a CK27+ hard, you'll get the creep every time.

 

[murphy1244]

Your saying half the CK line is unsafe? Your right, that's pretty wild!