Problems with Trespassers

[Ted Summey]

The "disrespected" crap came from someone else besides the OP. Let's get that straight.

This from the first post....
My wife went to see what was going on & one of them ran up against her with a 4 wheeler & was pushing her with it telling her to get off of the property because she had no business there.

You run up against my wife with a four wheeler and you will suffer consequences........all legal. A four wheeler is a deadly weapon when used as a threat with intent to intimidate or harm. With that and a group of 6 or 8 threatening people using fence posts as weapons, you bet I will use a firearm to stop the threat. NOTE: I did NOT say shoot or kill someone. I said stop the threat.

Stopping the threat maybe as simple as showing the weapon but certainly (if one chooses to carry) may mean using the weapon. If one chooses to carry a weapon, then one must be responsible in its use otherwise one fulfills all the critics lowest expectations of those of us who do carry a firearm.

I cannot agree with the extreme bravado of some of the posts in this thread. Not being armed in a situation like the OP is untenable to me. i am usually armed.......your mileage may vary.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I never heard the words "shoot to kill" uttered in my CCW class. I was taught to shoot to stop the threat to my life.
I'd no sooner offer up advise that would land you in prison than I would offer advice that would flip your tractor.

Glocker...your advice is not good advice in my state. Perhaps it is in your state, but I doubt it.

We were taught that if you ever had no choice and had to defend yourself you shoot to stop the threat as well. That meant aim for the chest as it was the biggest target.

I have multiple pistols and love shooting but I've never been comfortable carrying a pistol in public. I carry concealed but just didn't like it. I'll carry on the farm if I'm expecting to need it but that is it.

I've only ever had two people confront me and try to fight me since I've been an adult. One was the boyfriend of my daughters mom and the other was the husband of a highschool friend who is a hot head.

One was at my exs house while I was there visiting my infant daughter. He was mad because I took back my Grand Cherokee after I talked to him about not driving it until my ex took over the insurance. He continued driving it and I had to take it back. I didn't raise my voice or try to insult him. I tried to calmly talk to him while preparing myself for if he did attack. He ended up grabbing me to try and drag me outside to fight and all I knew was it would be bad for me on multiple accounts. Domestic situations don't help custody battles nor help if you have guns. So at that point I left and called the Sheriff and filed a report. He officer called my ex expecting to hear a different story and when she repeated exactly what I had told him he got upset and started lecturing her and telling both of them they needed to grow up. After that they never bothered me again.

The other one came to my parents house looking for me. I met him at the front door and he accused me of all sorts of things that were quite comical if you knew the whole story. Anyway he wanted me to fight and kept threatening me and I ignored him. I calmly talked to him and tried to diffuse the situation and when that didn't work and he started swearing in ear shot of my 5 year old daughter is when I told him to leave. He refused, even poked me like a child trying to start a fight and that is when I asked my parents to call the sheriff's. He left before the officer arrived but I filed a report as the idiot threatened me. Sheriff talked to him and I've never heard from him again.

I've always had good experiences with the police and don't lie or exaggerate my side of the story. But I also know how I will defend myself if things ever became physical. I'm just thankful to avoid those situations.

 

[DT86]

Wow. This thread is now littered with so much bull ****, from both sides, that it is no longer enjoyable to read.

I was interested in seeing how this progressed for the OP, now you have to wade through so much crap, it's no longer worth it. Way to go.

 

[westcliffe01]

It has probably been covered, but I would recommend the OP look into trail cameras that transmit data wirelessly to a central receiver. These types of cameras can't be defeated by smashing them or removing the data card, the images are fed back to the central receiver in real time. What would be captured is more evidence of trespass and destruction of property. These should be installed as high as possible, even if you need to put in your own 16 foot post that is set 4 ft into the ground.

Nailing these guys is going to take evidence. Compared to court costs, a sophisticated surveillance system is quite cheap. The more iron clad the evidence the less time one should spend in front of the judge. One needs to get these people charged by law enforcement, then it is the prosecutor vs the defendants. A personal discussion with the sheriff is definitely an important first step.

Never underestimate how far these kinds of situations can go. In order for the trespassers to have done what they already have, it suggests a well established pattern of crime, assault and intimidation. This is no ordinary example of neighborly relations. You might find a crop of weed popping up out the ground or other "contraband" which may be behind some of the aggression and their desire to have you off the property.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

... Sometimes YOU are responsible for your own safety.

Yes sir, we are in absolute agreement on that much. We just disagree on the means to that end.

Armed confrontation and responding in kind is a slippery slope that is likely to be inefficacious at best, and fatal in the worst-case scenerio. Not everyone has your "Dirty Harry" ability to neutralize six people, whether they are armed or not.

In an emotionally charged environment telling the OP to go get a gun and be a man is, quite frankly, naive IMHO.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

...You run up against my wife with a four wheeler and you will suffer consequences........all legal. A four wheeler is a deadly weapon when used as a threat with intent to intimidate or harm. With that and a group of 6 or 8 threatening people using fence posts as weapons, you bet I will use a firearm to stop the threat. NOTE: I did NOT say shoot or kill someone. I said stop the threat.

Stopping the threat maybe as simple as showing the weapon but certainly (if one chooses to carry) may mean using the weapon. If one chooses to carry a weapon, then one must be responsible in its use otherwise one fulfills all the critics lowest expectations of those of us who do carry a firearm.

I cannot agree with the extreme bravado of some of the posts in this thread. Not being armed in a situation like the OP is untenable to me. i am usually armed.......your mileage may vary.

I'm generally in agreement with your post, up to the point of showing the weapon to stop the threat. How many LEOs are killed with their own weapons? The risk of showing is having it taken away from you and used. You become the person escalating the threat level.

Better to carry and if the threat rises to the level justifying the use deadly force, then use it. Otherwise, keep it under wraps, IMHO. Best course is to diffuse the situation by whatever means is available-and forget the bruised ego retaliation.

 

[westcliffe01]

Nobody should be dictating anything to the OP, which includes you, Greasemonkey. Making "I" statements is alright, because it reflects your personal values and beliefs. But trying to make anyone arm or disarm is wrong, it is their own decision. If you personally have experience regarding how you handled a particular situation, great.

If you think there are not thousands of people buried in unmarked graves in this country, I'm pretty sure you are mistaken. One cannot rely on law enforcement for personal protection anywhere in this country. If you choose to be passive, that will be your legacy. Those of us who choose not to go quietly also have the right to make that decision. It is those of us who shoot back who are the primary disincentive to all the criminals out there who would otherwise turn the US into another Mexico. Last time I heard the drug cartels had killed well over 40 000 people in the last few years.

 

[houstonscott]

Yeah like Zimmerman.


HS

 

[westcliffe01]

Seems I was a little off. Compare the losses to law enforcement and soldiers in relation to the ordinary citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Casualties and losses
1,000+ Police and prosecutors killed[16]
138 Army soldiers killed[17]
14 Marines killed[17]
318 Federal Police killed[17]
58 reporters killed[18]
~1,000 children killed[19][20]

121,199 cartel members detained[21]
8,500 convicted[22]

62 killed in 2006[23]
2,837 killed in 2007[23]
6,844 killed in 2008[23]
11,753 killed in 2009[23]
19,546 killed in 2010[24][25]
24,068 killed in 2011[26][27][28]
18,061 killed by 31 October 2012[29]
3,200+ killed in 2013 under Nieto administration [30]
Total estimate of deaths (varies): 83,191+ during Felipe Calderon administration. 3,200 + killed in first three months of Enrique Nieto administration [30] = 86,391+[31][31]
Total displaced: 1.6 million[32]

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Nobody should be dictating anything to the OP, which includes you, Greasemonkey....

Is there a particular post where you believe I was telling the OP not to arm himself? If so, let me know and I'll fix it.

I believe my posts are directed to those posts that imply that in order to be a man he has to get a gun and "protect" his family. All I have suggested is that to "be a man" he should educate himself as to the best way to handle the maggots. That may, or may not, involve strapping on a Judge and "showing it" to scare them off. If their judgment is impaired by being under the influence of alcohol, "showing" a gun may only escalate the threat, not neutralize it. Just my humble opinion.