110 Wire Guage question

[grsthegreat]

check out the cost of 2/2/4 urd wire. its aluminum direct bury.. This combination is readily available, and can actually power up to 100 amps. We use it on long distance 20 amp runs (gate circuits, wells,etc) as it eliminates the voltage drop...AND costs about $1.00/foot here in idaho for the bundle of 3 wires.. It can be direct buried it can also be put into a conduit for added security.

if you want to run 240 now or in future, add a #6 xhhw alum for future ground run (about $0.25/ft )


its cheap, legal , easy to get and use.

problem solved

 

[arlen4720]

When mindless rules like #1 are thrown in its no wonder people quit listening.
larry

Why do you think it is mindless? Paralell runs are frought with potential problems. The only reason the NEC lets you do them at all are because there is no other way to run large capacity feeders. If you consider how paralell resistors work... when one of the paralell wires resistance changes, the current in each paralell run changes in a non-proportional manner.
Think about it.

 

[sailfast]

Why do you think it is mindless? Paralell runs are frought with potential problems. The only reason the NEC lets you do them at all are because there is no other way to run large capacity feeders. If you consider how paralell resistors work... when one of the paralell wires resistance changes, the current in each paralell run changes in a non-proportional manner.
Think about it.

Who cares?

He is running a lite duty circuit here... Not a factory.

Yes what he wants to do is not ideal but will work just fine for his purpose.

 

[ultrarunner]

check out the cost of 2/2/4 urd wire. its aluminum direct bury.. This combination is readily available, and can actually power up to 100 amps. We use it on long distance 20 amp runs (gate circuits, wells,etc) as it eliminates the voltage drop...AND costs about $1.00/foot here in idaho for the bundle of 3 wires.. It can be direct buried it can also be put into a conduit for added security.

if you want to run 240 now or in future, add a #6 xhhw alum for future ground run (about $0.25/ft )


its cheap, legal , easy to get and use.

problem solved

Great Post and good advice!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Why do you think it is mindless? Paralell runs are frought with potential problems. The only reason the NEC lets you do them at all are because there is no other way to run large capacity feeders. If you consider how paralell resistors work... when one of the paralell wires resistance changes, the current in each paralell run changes in a non-proportional manner.
Think about it.

Just have to be sure to bond the multi ends of each parallel feeder well so all wires make a good connection. No reason not to use or mix the smaller sizes into a multii // run. ... Ill trust the copper to maintain its characteristic resistance and thus its proportion of the current. I suspect the size where they start making the exception is also to maintain the efficiency of the conductor that would start being lost to skin effect in the larger conductors.

 

[arlen4720]

Just have to be sure to bond the multi ends of each parallel feeder well so all wires make a good connection. No reason not to use or mix the smaller sizes into a multii // run. ... Ill trust the copper to maintain its characteristic resistance and thus its proportion of the current. I suspect the size where they start making the exception is also to maintain the efficiency of the conductor that would start being lost to skin effect in the larger conductors.

Well, I can tell you as a master electrician, and as an electrical engineer with 20 years of industrial field experience, that skin effect is not an issue at 60hz. Paralleling conductors of any size is problematic. Paralleling small conductors is idiotic, and a violation of the NEC. I wouldn't be doing my due diligence as a professional unless I said that.

 

[sailfast]

Well, I can tell you as a master electrician, and as an electrical engineer with 20 years of industrial field experience, that skin effect is not an issue at 60hz. Paralleling conductors of any size is problematic. Paralleling small conductors is idiotic, and a violation of the NEC. I wouldn't be doing my due diligence as a professional unless I said that.

See
There is the problem.
You are a Master Electrician beholden to the NEC.
And this isn't an industrial application.
Can't think outside of the NEC bible.

Parallel conductors are used in dozens of applications.
While less than ideal it would certainly work in this application, far better than using the existing 4 wire harness in the manner it was intended.

 

[arlen4720]

See
There is the problem.
You are a Master Electrician beholden to the NEC.
And this isn't an industrial application.
Can't think outside of the NEC bible.

Parallel conductors are used in dozens of applications.
While less than ideal it would certainly work in this application, far better than using the existing 4 wire harness in the manner it was intended.

Ha ha. Your kinda right. Lucky for me though, I have the engineer and farmer part to balance it out. Sometimes they fight
But in my defense, there was talk about only paralleling half of the circuit, then using the ground to parallel the other side of the circuit. Pretty bad ideas. Then after all that, voltage drop would still suck
If I don't give proper advice, someone will call me out on that, and say "your an engineer and an electrician, and you don't know that".
So I leave the bad advice to others.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Then after all that, voltage drop would still suck

Agreed..