Intimidating Drivers

[buickanddeere]

Battery research is continuing.
New rechargeable flow battery could enable cheaper, more efficient energy storage

High storage capacity and quick charge transfers would allow power to be accumulated at your home in the daytime from solar, then transferred to your EV at night. The ability to store and transfer power from batteries, or another storage device, uncouples the "drive during the daytime" problem.

This isn't a cross-country go-kart race; it's people using their vehicles on a fairly predictable schedule. Sure, there will good and bad solar or wind production days.

The same applies to wind turbines. They do make power, sometimes so much they must be derated because the grid cannot use it all. If that power can be efficiently stored until needed, then it is much more usable.

Solar and wind are not "on-demand" sources but they are being coupled to a grid that has always been an on-demand design. We assume that power is available for whatever, whenever, because that's the way it's always been.

Natural gas is not carbon neutral, methane is a very potent greenhouse gas--about 10-15 times more potent than CO2 actually. Unless the case can be made that fracking, blown wells, greenhouse gas, etc. are good for the earth and the things that live upon it, let's cut to the chase and minimize those destructive activities as much as possible.

There are certainly things/uses that will need to rely on fossil fuels well into the future. There are also many electrical loads that can be supplied with solar and wind if we have the technology to do so. That technology is growing every year.

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

 

[powerpace]

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

There is no "magic" energy source. The combination of energy sources making the best use of the resources we have is probably going to be the everchanging "norm".

The Prius that I drive is a combination of hydrocarbon use, gravity, "friction", inertia. One model uses sunlight for the airconditioning power.

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=phone+energy+efficiency&qpvt=phone+energy+efficiency&FORM=EWRE

 

[dave1949]

Every time power is transferred into and out of batteries or through convertors/inverter there are efficiency losses.
Unless the typical driver has deep pockets for a Telsa or quantum physics researchers make a break through with antimatter or something. We are stuck with 15-40 mile range electric cars for town and urban drivers to use.
I work in the energy business and I can assure you there is no low cost practical way to store LARGE amounts of energy. Outside of a hydro-electric dam, a pile of coal , natural gas in a pipeline or salt dome of bundles of U235 in a reactor core.

Oh Ye of little faith,

Technology tends to deliver what is needed or valued--as long as we don't ask for the impossible. Bumping the range of an affordable and practical EV up to 75 or 80 miles doesn't seem impossible to me.

I agree we are a long ways from storing megawatt-scale electric power, other than pumping water up into a reservoir and using that to drive turbines when needed. Very inefficient but one way of using green power, or the off-peak output of a nuclear plant. However, there is much that can be accomplished without that megawatt-scale storage.

Transfer and conversion losses are important, of course, but they are hardly unique to batteries and inverters.

Gas and diesel engines are 30% to 40% efficient for example--and total process-wise, that's after those fuels are in the fuel tank.
Engine efficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Consider how much energy is expended to get those fuels in the tank ready to use, add those losses in too. Also consider the embedded energy required to make the equipment that brings those fuels to a usable state. These things apply to all forms and types of energy generation of course. Just cherry picking one facet of losses for comparison will never give the complete picture.

Make comparisons of the downstream costs (waste by-products) too. How much needs to be added to the per-mile fuel costs of a typical vehicle to account for the downstream costs associated with fossil fuels that society pays for one way or another? How much needs to be added to the cost of a solar kW to account for panel and/or battery disposal or recycling?

Just looking at the energy density of a gallon of diesel fuel and comparing that to other energy forms has to be done while keeping many other factors in mind. Doing otherwise is an example of being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I don't want to sound like a green energy nutcase, but I think we can and will tap solar resources a lot more than we have, and the overall effects of displacing traditional fuels will be very beneficial.

 

[dmccarty]

I drive a F350, 4x4, crew cab with an eight foot bed. People tail gate me constantly. Mostly they are driving smaller cars not SUV or PUs. While I see aggressive driving with some PUs and SUVs, most of the drivers are in smaller cars or motorcycles. Sometimes the people tail gating are driving a Prius. :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing: Unless the tail gater is a larger vehicle I just don't care. The truck has quite a bit of mass for them to mess with if they hit me. I will be driving home from the accident while they will be towed. Cars zip around me so they can go nowhere while increasing the odds of an accident. I can't tell if they are clueless, lack situational awareness, or just dont care. Maybe all three.

I put put along at 55 mph since that is the speed limit and for some of the roads it is the safest speed. One road is a one lane in each direction and the people who pass, get at best, 30-60 seconds up the road before hitting more traffic. This road just had two accidents, one of which had a fatality. The fatality was a head on crash. I am surprised at how few of these there has been over the years because of the crazy people passing. Most of the crazy passers are in cars.

I get passed on a four lane road by Priuses all of the time. They are doing at least 10 over as they "save" fuel as they pass other cars. Last week a Pod Of Priuses passed me all speeding. I think it is the same cars I usually see but they were just podded up for a change.

Later,
Dan

 

[homedad]

Is it possible that the tailgaters are actually hypermilers, and are drafting? They are interested in high MPG's

I maintain that many people are only limiting their speed due to the vehicle in front of them. They are so distracted by their phone, passenger, coffee or food that they don't know that they are too close.

 

[dmccarty]

Is it possible that the tailgaters are actually hypermilers, and are drafting? They are interested in high MPG's

I maintain that many people are only limiting their speed due to the vehicle in front of them. They are so distracted by their phone, passenger, coffee or food that they don't know that they are too close.

Nah, they are not hypermiling. They are just stupid. Anyone keeping less than three feet between the front of their car and the back of the car they are following at 55 mph is a moron and/or distracted. I do see some of these people driving while on the phone but many are just in a hurry and they are annoyed that someone is in front of them. The don't think about what will happen if the car in front has to hit the brakes.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Just saw this about a Volvo DIESEL hybrid with all wheel drive, Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid: Eco, economy and diesel power

Looks like it would cost $60-70K in the US if the diesel was allowed in the states.

Later,
Dan

 

[bcp]

It is easy to spot all the fast drivers on a highway. They are behind slower drivers. So why rush?

Bruce

 

[Midniteoyl]

It is easy to spot all the fast drivers on a highway. They are behind slower drivers. So why rush?

Bruce

Exactly why the German system wont work here, regardless of the whining..

 

[houstonscott]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-volkswagen-polo-bluemotion-diesel-quick-spin


The batteries are not necessary for the mileage, and not worth the risk and added pollution and cost to manufacture. We just need to get the real cutting edge high mileage technologies into the country that the rest of the world enjoys.

HS.