Kioti 45 died while operating - likely electrical problem

[BigGuy]

OK, I am back from the woods.
1. checked battery again, 12.61 volts
2. no dash lights came on
3. jumped ground from battery to frame - no improvement
4.jumped second (older 12.5v) battery in parallel with installed battery - no improvement
Here it comes:
5. decided to take battery out for recharging in workshop, had both terminals disconnected, then remembered that I wanted to check hazard flasher operation.
6. slipped terminals back on - flashers worked!
7. turned ignition switch - lights came on!
8. tightened terminals, turned ignition on, after preheating tried to start - nothing. All lights out again.
(terminals are clean, I use the felt washers underneath and I always put a layer of spray-on grease on the terminals after installing the battery)
I am pretty sure the battery needs a good charging, the fact that the lights came on briefly tells me no fuses or harnesses are out. Carried the battery back out of the woods to my shop - good workout! (that's when being 6'7" and 300+ lbs. comes in handy)

It must be like Coyote Machine said the charging system is not doing its job and the battery is being drained during operation.
Once I have the recharged battery back in and (hopefully) the tractor running, what should be the measured output of the generator? What is the correct way to test the generator and if the numbers come in low, can it be repaired or is replacement necessary?

Thanks Motor Seven for tip with sticks damaging something, I did check underneath and while I found a good amount of mud, no obvious damage or dangling wires/connectors were found.
Thanks to TN Andy for the tip re. water in fuel, makes good sense when tractor suddenly dies but it would not explain all lights being out on dashboard. I did change the fuel filter just a few weeks ago during routine maintenance.

I will report back later this PM when recharged battery is back in - thank you all for helping!!
Big Guy

 

[k0ua]

It is possible positive battery cables are "ate up" with corrosion or just bad connection on the inside of the insulation? you said you had no lights no flashers, then took battery out, then put it back in, now you have flashers, dash lights, and then when you tried to start you lost it all. When you tried to pull large amount of current the connection failed and now have no connections.. The first thing I would have done is measure the top of the battery terminals, right on the terminals with voltmeter. If I had about 12 volts, on the battery terminals, I would know it is a high resistance connection problem. If battery voltage is extremely low, you have a bad battery.. I don't think you have a bad battery, I think you have an intermittent high resistance connection. Yank on the positive battery wire, if it comes off of the terminal or pulls in two pieces you have found your problem.

 

[RandyT]

My first interstate Kioti battery lasted 6 months. You could turn on the ignition key, go through preheat, and hit the start position, and loose all lights. Turn off key, turn back on have lights, hit start, and loose everything. Had a bad cell in the battery. Could put on charger for 2 minutes, and it would start for a week. If you charged battery before testing would test good. Found bad when tested in fail mode. Second battery did same thing after 18 months. Third battery lasted 3 years, on 3rd year of 4th battery after owning tractor for 8 years. ,

You could have a bad cell in your new battery, will show 12v with meter but will fall on its face under load.

 

[k0ua]

My first interstate Kioti battery lasted 6 months. You could turn on the ignition key, go through preheat, and hit the start position, and loose all lights. Turn off key, turn back on have lights, hit start, and loose everything. Had a bad cell in the battery. Could put on charger for 2 minutes, and it would start for a week. If you charged battery before testing would test good. Found bad when tested in fail mode. Second battery did same thing after 18 months. Third battery lasted 3 years, on 3rd year of 4th battery after owning tractor for 8 years. ,

You could have a bad cell in your new battery, will show 12v with meter but will fall on its face under load.

True, that is possible, but a voltmeter on the terminals of the battery itself while another person is trying to start the tractor will reveal the failure of a battery also. But for sure the probes of the meter MUST be on the terminals of the battery itself not the clamp on terminals of the cable to eliminate the possibility of a high resistance connection between battery terminal and cable clamp. I am thinking seriously about going into the business of selling NO-OX-ID. If you use it on your new tractor/truck/car/lawn mower etc. you will not have connection/oxidation issues. If I could convince enough people of its efficacy and my 34 year track record of using it, perhaps I could make a living at that.

James K0UA

 

[ritcheyvs]

If your s/n is higher than 208 (e.g. stop solenoid on front of engine with no external linkages), let me know and I'll try to find the other schematic. The main difference is the stop solenoid. The old style used a timer circuit that energized the solenoid for several seconds after you switch the key to "off" and that shuts off fuel flow (causes the injection pump to inject zero fuel). The new style is spring-loaded to shut off fuel flow (again via the IP) and the solenoid is energized when the key is "on" (this overcomes the spring which allows the IP to inject fuel). By the way, there is an even newer design that uses two solenoid coils (engage and hold); I think the SE models have that.

 

[ritcheyvs]

What James said. Your experimentation this a.m. indicates a high resistance in the battery (like a bad cell) or positive battery cable (most probable). You probably ruled out a bad ground via the jumper cable test. If you don't have a helper (my usual condition) consider getting long meter leads (with alligator clips at the ends) so you can position the meter to be visible while you turn the key switch.

 

[BigGuy]

Update:
Installed freshly charged battery reading 13.4 volts
Cleaned terminals really good, hooked everthing up and tractor started right up!!!!! (Note; The terminals and battery post were clean to begin with, no visible corrosion but I cleaned them again anyway)
Have 14.5. Volts on battery terminals with engine running, also at starter motor so that would indicate the generator is working properly.
I wiggled the positve and negative battery cables back and forth, no change, seemed ok, the copper wire right at the battery clamp is still clean, not corroded, not "green".

Seems like things are ok for now, I have worked with the tractor for 1.5 hrs without a problem.
If any of you guys have a good plan to check the battery wires, etc. I would be happy to persue that. Somehow me thinks this is not the last time I will have to deal with this.

Again a heartfelt Thank You to all who responded with tips and help - I truly appreciate it!!
Big Guy

 

[Coyote machine]

Update:
Installed freshly charged battery reading 13.4 volts
Cleaned terminals really good, hooked everthing up and tractor started right up!!!!! (Note; The terminals and battery post were clean to begin with, no visible corrosion but I cleaned them again anyway)
Have 14.5. Volts on battery terminals with engine running, also at starter motor so that would indicate the generator is working properly.
I wiggled the positve and negative battery cables back and forth, no change, seemed ok, the copper wire right at the battery clamp is still clean, not corroded, not "green".

Seems like things are ok for now, I have worked with the tractor for 1.5 hrs without a problem.
If any of you guys have a good plan to check the battery wires, etc. I would be happy to persue that. Somehow me thinks this is not the last time I will have to deal with this.

Again a heartfelt Thank You to all who responded with tips and help - I truly appreciate it!!
Big Guy

There is no generator. there IS an alternator with built in voltage regulator, or possibly a separate one on your earlier model. Expect 13.8 volts-14.25 volts at the battery posts when the tractor is running, depending on load, like headlights on, etc. Anything outside that range is UNacceptable.
Use the felt washers, spray battery post protector spray on the posts AND clamps- available in any auto store. And spray it on the frame bolt at the ground connection.
BTW, you're welcome; and go get your ignition switch money back- if possible or keep it as a spare.