County says no camping on your own land !!

[3930dave]

I'd never heard of Camping Permits for your own land, until reading this thread.

My attempted joke )) about taxes was alluding to the fact that Canada in general used to have much higher taxes than many parts of the USA. Time moves on.... it seems that esp. local level tax strategies in the USA have caught up with Canada. I feel your pain.

Bison is fortunate to live in Alberta. Thanks to the resource base, taxes there are typically the lowest in Canada.

I'm probably repeating myself (even within this thread) when I say I have trouble reconciling the image I had of the USA as a kid (watching John Wayne movies), and the level of government interference that has been described. That's a genuine comment, I'm not trying to be funny or mocking. And maybe it just means I'm getting old !

One of the reasons I watch (today) what is going on Stateside is that many of our Canadian politicians are famous for copying what they see coming out of Washington.

I for one don't want to see more adoption of things like HOAs, Camping on your own land Fees.....

People in Alberta are known for having too much common sense to allow it, but I'm not so convinced that these strategies wouldn't find favour with pols in the rest of Canada.

Rgds, D.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

First of all, our Founding Fathers did not create a pure democracy because they were fully aware of the concept of a tyranny by the majority. So they went with a republican form (not the party) of government with a representational democracy at the national level, with a requirement for joining states to also have a republican form of government.

Ownership means control and responsibility. If you don稚 control it, you don稚 own it. And if you don稚 have responsibility for it, you don稚 own it either. Funny, well, more like exasperating, how local laws and regulations always seem to hold you responsible for your property, but don稚 allow you full control over it.

So-called mental illness is not sufficient excuse to deny someone their property rights. You have the Constitutional right to be a hoarder. Talk to anyone who lived through the Great Depression (not many left) and you値l find people that believe you have a DUTY to retain any and all resources that might be useful.

A government is instituted by the people to provide a framework for us to all live together with as few controls as necessary to keep us from killing each other and dealing with each other in a mutually satisfactory manner, while maintaining the maximum amount of freedom possible under those restrictions.

At its most basic, that means anyone can have the trashiest place on the planet as long as it doesn稚 interfere with other peopleç—´ use of their land. So nobody should have to look at, hear, smell, taste, or feel what youæ±*e doing on your land from their own place. Either keep it neat, or put up a wall so nobody has to look at your trash. Clean up the stink, kill the noise, suppress the dust, stop the shaking that other folks can experience on their property, or be prepared to go to battle over it.

Not to be unfair about it, but if you were there first and had a pig farm, anyone moving next door shouldn稚 be able to force you to do anything about the smell or the noise. First come, first served, and pig farm consequences would be the standard, not the exception.

Now I have a fundamental hatred of people telling me what to do. I don稚 have a pathological need to stick my nose in their business; and I have an expectation to be treated the same way. Unfortunately, the only way to defend yourself from these petty tyrants is to be active in your government. You have to take the time to attend those town meetings, various committees, school boards, zoning commission, etc. You need to get copies of all the town regulations. (County and State are good too; but you might have to stick to a single department at a time.) Pick them over and propose rescinding the ones not needed or outdated. Simplify the ones that are too long or confusing. Get rid of all of the ones that were passed to benefit a specific business or group.

Remember, every law, rule, regulation on the books costs you money to maintain and enforce. The more there are, the more it will cost. And the costs are ALWAYS more than the benefit.

 

[Old Virginia Joe]

I agree, worn-out or oppressive laws need to be discarded. Unfortunately, local governments see this effort as an unreasonable hassle for their job to want to undertake, BECAUSE nowadays, ordinances have to be advertised in advance in the newspapers, public hearings held, etc., etc., and they see it as too much work, UNLESS there is this huge overwhelming tide of citizens standing there beating on the doors for change. I'm telling you, in my case, though there were plenty of people agreeing with me on this in the community, only five people actually came to sit with me at the meeting, and only one spoke at the podium. THAT is the lesson I have learned: Laugh and everyone laughs with you---cry, and you cry alone. People just will not show up for an issue like this. They just sit home and hope no one comes after them. That is reality.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Ownership means control and responsibility. If you don稚 control it, you don稚 own it. And if you don稚 have responsibility for it, you don稚 own it either. Funny, well, more like exasperating, how local laws and regulations always seem to hold you responsible for your property, but don稚 allow you full control over it.

Excellent point. The only reason regulations and enforcement are necessary is the failure of personal responsibility. If everyone exercised personal responsibility on their own land, the regulations would be unnecessary.

 

[irwin]

Not to be unfair about it, but if you were there first and had a pig farm, anyone moving next door shouldn't be able to force you to do anything about the smell or the noise. First come, first served, and pig farm consequences would be the standard, not the exception. .

This an excellent point!
Absolutely the existing pig farm (auto salvage yard, junk collector) has rights (in my mind) over anyone that moves into that neighborhood later..

But if my peaceful, sweet smelling neighborhood had a new resident that turned the 5 acre lot adjoining mine into a disease breeding cesspool, complete with rats, pit vipers, cockroaches that become a problem on my land.. endangering myself, my family , my pets, horses etc..

I guess I'm free to sell out and move if anyone will buy my flawed land now....:thumbdown:

That is what the laws were enacted to combat. It's always one (or 2) slob(s) that effs up freedoms for the innocent responsible caretakers of their own property..

Don't get me wrong I want complete freedom to use my land as I want..local, state, federal government be darned.. leave me alone..

But... what about the guy that brings havoc, disease, etc. into my land.. I should go ask him if I can look around for something useful and do my best to be happy he has the freedom to interfere with my health and safety..

Oh' that's right, I should move back to the city (I've never lived in the city, grew up with woods around me, won't have it any other way) My neighbors have junk in their land, but it's normal junk..a few old cars, a beat up boat, washer and dryer rusting away.. doesn't bother me a bit..

I have the choice to decide not to buy a place with excessive junk in a neighbors land.. If someone moves in and creates an unhealthy ecological mess I won't be happy if one of my animals gets sick as a direct result of someone elses disregard for basic respectful behavior.

 

[dave1949]

I don't understand why people will insist on property rights for the property they own, but fail to see noise, visual, light, and odor for the pollution that it certainly is. No one is granted the right to pollute another's property and those are pollutants. The visual pollution is the most easily dealt with using fences and planting screens, the others are very difficult to deal with.

What really happens in the case of a pig farm for example, is that we see it as impractical to enforce against that type of pollution. That is where zoning and land use come into play. It's a compromise; if you live in an agriculture area, the assumption is you are or could be generating some of that type of pollution also along with your neighbors.

Even within an ag area, there are expectations on what is reasonable. There is no reason a modern hog farm has to really stink all the time. People will push back when things go beyond reason and they will succeed in court. That's as it should be. Our land use and property rights concepts originated well before multi-thousand hog production facilities were even dreamed of, so there is naturally some disconnect and delay between the laws and what is happening in reality.

 

[Midniteoyl]

A better example would be houses around airports.. Those airports were there looong before the homes, but the idiot who bought a home right under the flight/landing path will now scream to high heaven about the noise... well, duh! :duh: Same goes for pig or chicken farms... you knew it was there, you knew why the land was cheap..

 

[irwin]

Not sure if this is a joke or a real item, but it does go along with our discussion.

For all of us who think Government is too big!!! An Idaho rancher was denied a permit to build a horse shelter or shade lean to. So-- He built table & chairs - which didn't require a permit.

 

[Midniteoyl]

LMAO!! :thumbsup:

 

[BigE_]

Not sure if this is a joke or a real item, but it does go along with our discussion.

Funny, but photo shopped. Horses have a shadow. Table and chairs do not.