COLD winter questions. Kerosene as an additive? Whats winter diesel?

[3930dave]

I talked to the dealer who is also a mechanic and he verified that the tractor shipped with 15w40 in the crank case. He also said that he runs all his machines (huge acreage) on 0W-40 to avoid this problem during the winter. I'm only 20 hours from my 50hr service. It should be no problem to log another 20 hours in the next couple weeks and at that point I'll switch to 0W-40. The inline cooler heater is working just not transferring enough heat to the oil pan.

I was going to buy a magnetic heater but the cost would be about the same as my first service so I'll hold off till then.

Thanks everyone.

You should notice a big difference with the 0W40, that may be enough right there.

Depending how long your tractor sits, you may want a good quality trickle charger/maintainer on it. Exact current values vary by model of tractor; there will be a low, but constant drain on the battery. Many of the newer trickle chargers have an optional Low Temperature setting - it bumps the charge voltage up a bit, for standard flooded lead-acid batteries.

(If you look at the output voltage curve for an automotive alternator, they do the same thing, output voltage rises as temperature drops.)

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

Synthetic oil would be a better choice. Still wonder why the heater is not warming the engine.

 

[grm61]

Synthetic oil would be a better choice. Still wonder why the heater is not warming the engine.

Another vote for synthetic, I did the 50 on my Kioti 16 hours ago and went with 5/40 Shell Rotella T6.
Its supposed to flow very well at low temps.

 

[MHarryE]

If your tractor just turns over slow but eventually starts and runs it is unlikely to be a fuel gelling problem. If it was, the tractor would never start. I live in Northern MN where -25C is not uncommon. My off-road diesel gets a cold flow additive - from the supplier - from October 15 - April 1 and I never have a fuel problem without using any additive. All our tractors have block heaters but really only 2 do much running during the winter. They get either 0W-40 synthetic in the Deere, 5W-40 synthetic in the Kubota. Block heater plugged in 1 hour or more on the Deere if the temp is below -10C. The Kubota sits in a garage that never gets below freezing so never need to plug it in unless for some reason it is left outside but it is harder starting than any of our 4 direct injected engines. That means rough running and lots of smoke for a few minutes.

 

[JoeL4330]

I didn't see it mentioned, but since you have electricity, consider a trickle-charger on the battery (battery tender, for example)

 

[Dingeryote]

Battery Tender, Katz magnetic oil pan/block heater, will get you by on starting, and wont break the bank.

The bigger issue is summer fuel going hazy(Parafin separating out) or gelling in the cold. You can toss some Power service 911 In the tank to cover the gelling, but when fuel goes opaque, you're gershkrewed.

If you don't know if you are running winter blend or summer, use a good anti-gel like Power service to cover your bases.
And keep a couple spare filters on hand.

 

[Coyote machine]

IF your coolant heater is working, as you say it is your engine should start easily, and more so after you go to 5-40 Diesel oil synthetic like the T6 Rotella. Your issues is more likely one of glow plugs malfunction, than needing a coolant or other heater. You have around 30 hours on the engine, but may have a defective glow plug or two, or possibly the timer relay is not energizing the circuit. This should be attended to ASAP.
Do you use the glow feature to assist in starting the engine? Does the light go off after the plugs are heated and ready for starting?
Report back results of these questions about your glow circuit.

I just went back to see the vid. How are you able to get an idle speed of 480RPMs? My Kioti will only allow a minimum RPMs at around 900-1000.:confused2: Try setting your throttle to around that level of RPMs before you next shut the tractor off and leave it there. Start it as you normally do and see what results you get.
Report back results- in fact try another vid so if it varies we can see it too.

DO NOT mess with the injection timing on your tractor under any circumstances- you could void your warranty.
Ask around which suppliers sell winterized diesel and where to buy it at local stations.
You could change your oil/ filter now to an approved weight for winter; I suggest 5W-40 DIESEL oil, Rotella T6, or Mobil 1 Diesel oil, or Amsoil Diesel oil. Whatever oil brand you choose make sure it says CI on the label for Compression Ignition, NOT SI, which is for spark ignition gas engines.

 

[Omineca]

I just went back to see the vid. How are you able to get an idle speed of 480RPMs? My Kioti will only allow a minimum RPMs at around 900-1000.:confused2: Try setting your throttle to around that level of RPMs before you next shut the tractor off and leave it there. Start it as you normally do and see what results you get.
Report back results- in fact try another vid so if it varies we can see it too.

Well thats just it, its already set at 900, I cant go any lower (that's the min throttle position). On a normal summer day it starts at 860-900 right off the bat. during winter it starts at 400-500 and sounds like crap and smokes a lot but only for a few minutes. I have the throttle set to 1500rpm on cold days (as per manual instructions) and it will slowly climb to 700-800 then quickly shoot to 1500 in a matter of a few seconds. Its exactly like in the video minus a few rpm with the super cold weather. The dealer said heating the oil or changing it to 0W-40 will make a world of difference. I will also add the 20% Kerosene as suggested in the owners manual, it might fire a bit better.


Thanks again to everyone for the loads of info, I'm really learning a lot more than I expected.

 

[RalphVa]

For diesels, if it doesn't do it automatically (and apparently yours doesn't), you need to give it some throttle (1/3 to 1/2 full) when starting it in cold weather. Then quickly throttle it back to keep it around 1,500 when it starts.

A heater hose type engine heater should work fine, as long as you put it on for an hour or two before you want to start it. This is exactly the type heater I had in our 220D when I started it one morning at -22 F in Vermont.

A diesel additive will work at a tiny concentration (about 0.15% or as advised on the label) vs. kerosene. Kerosene will work too, but you may need as much as 50% at really low temps.

Ralph

 

[JoeL4330]

You can always use a winterizing additive--kero, or something like power-service white--that will keep your fuel from gelling (turning into paraffin), but your fuel dealer's there should all be selling winterized fuel by now ...if you are using any you bought some time ago, buy fresh and try that. [bear in mind that winterized fuel has somewhat less energy, but that should not be a concern, here]

As I understand the very, very low idle on starting, it seems that the engine is not firing on all cylinders, initially, which would give you the low, low idle. There are two possible causes that come to mind: you are not getting enough fuel to one or more; or, one or more is not, initially firing the fuel. Fuel starvation would be caused by minor gelling and you can deal with it suggested above. The other alternative is one or more faulty glow plugs, as some have suggested. Easiest to deal with is the fuel-gel possibility: change the filter and use newly-purchased fuel from a high volume supplier (maybe number 1 diesel if available, as a check); make sure to inspect the old fuel filter you just replaced and check for gelling to confirm. If this does the trick, you're home free, but you might choose to add power-service (white) or equivalent anti-gelling product.

Note: Incidentally, Power Service has three products, one in a white bottle, one in a gray bottle, and one in an orange bottle. The orange is 911 and in not (not) meant for routine use, but can "rescue" fuel that has gelled. Gray is a summertime cetane improver (unnecessary if your supplier meets minimum cetane specs (which is almost always the case) . The white bottle is what you would use to winterize. Read the labels? Incidentally, I wouldn't add just (any old) kerosene ...if you are tempted, find Number 1 Diesel and try that, instead. [You can run entirely on Number 1, but at reduced power ...better to use the blend your fuel dealers carry in your area in the winter]

Now, if the new fuel (w. additive, perhaps) and the new fuel filter don't do the trick, I'd suspect the glow plugs--a voltmeter and a manual can tell you how to check them. First, however, make sure you know how to engage them and for how long. [another, less likely possibility, is border-line insufficient compression in one or more cylinders ...and, an oil change to "winter" oil might help a tiny bit if that's the problem ...but, we've agreed you're changing the oil (and filter) to a synthetic winter weight, right?)

Then, I'd also make sure your engine heater is actually heating [plugged into a live outlet, gets warm to the touch] and [I would] add the battery tender or equivalent charger. [we did make sure we had a good battery, didn't we? ...it spins over pretty well, even when cold? again, a voltmeter check of the battery and charging system can't hurt ...or jump with a running car/truck]

Finally, a modest warm-up period to bring hydro fluid up near operating temp (especially if it's an HST).

Anyway, the key symptom you disclosed is the initial very very low idle (unless the tach gauge sticks ...you can hear this low, low idle, yeah?) What confused some posters is that few of us have ever seen so low an idle speed ...so, that's the symptom to attack. A discussion with your dealer highlighting this symptom can't hurt, either.