Slab Construction?

[QueBota]

Not sure if this is a "Related Topic" but here it is.

Looking at a cabin/second home. Nice little place on 4.5 acres in the Laurel Highlands.

Inital construction was in 1977, additional work around 1986.

Have only looked at it once (in a snowstorm) for about two hours. Gettin dark, 8 degrees,
getting colder and snowing harder. Had to leave, 210 miles back to my place.

Have no personal experierence with slab construction. It seems all the plumbing and septic
disappear into the floor (slab). Not sure if they run below the slab or are imbedded in the
slab. There is no crawlspace. Seems to me many of the pipes have to be nearing the end
of their lives. In the event service is needed, how do you go about it?

Like the cabin (it is more "rustic" than the pics or realtors description would indicate), like the
lot. Sits at 2460', mostly level on a hilltop below the main ridge (close to 3000'). Within walking
distance of Forbes State Forest, approximately fifty thousand acres of room to roam.

Not sure if I want to get involved due to the uncertainty and issues regarding the slab
construction.

Appreciate any comments or thoughts.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Egon]

Note: the many old old houses sitting on cement basements and floor with plumbing disappearing into the cement.:thumbsup:

 

[QueBota]

I can deal with the main water line coming in through the floor, I can deal with the main sanitary/sewage line exiting through the floor. The thought of the entire water distribution and sanitary distribution network disappearing through the slab into parts unknown is a little disconcerting.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[deepNdirt]

Not unusual to have the plumbing under the slab, It's not embedded into the cement if this is what your asking, with perhaps the exception of the stubs that will lead into the actual living space the plumbers will slip a plastic sleeve over them, Most all rough plumbing Both water supply as well as drain pipe are laid into trenches routed to the area's needed, inspected and covered with several inches of dirt afterwords, then Polly/plastic sheathing is rolled out covering the ground then reinforce wire is laid out and then the slab will be poured,

Being the house was built in the '70s my concern would be the product used for the drain system, I would be 95% sure copper would have been used for the water lines, and Likely ABS for drain pipe, However there was a product use just before the '70s that turned out to have a limited life time, The Plumbers refer to it as red-pipe,

 

[QueBota]

So, what do you do when something needs service, start surgically tearing into the slab. I like my basement acess, would even settle for a crawl space, the slab sounds problematic at best and a repair headache when the time comes.

Going to get another look before I sign any papers. There is a local "inspector" that's going to look at the place and give me his opinion.

Surveryor wants approx $1800 to run the boundary, nail down corners and drop intermediate pins, thats about $1 per foot of boundary.

Will update at that time.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dave1949]

A slab is never going to give you the repair/maintenance access and ease of relocating pipes for renovations, that a basement offers. That's just a fact of slab life.

I wouldn't pass up a nice property that has a lot of other things going for it just because the cabin is on a slab if the slab and plumbing look okay now.

Would you ever build a new cabin and re-purpose the existing slab for something else like a garage or toy shed?

 

[Carl_NH]

I would look up the septic tank and lines and find the clean outs, and same for the well pump. Where is the well pump tank, and controls?

This will tell you the piping material where they enter the house. Also if this is simple layout like the bath backing up to kitchen, with centralized feeds and drains it may not be overly complex to repair if you did need to repair.

Half of our house is on slab built in 1946 - we redid all the drain plumbing (and dry wells) except for 4' of 4" cast iron pipe (bath was on the outer wall, and same with laundry room so two short sections 2' each of cast iron pipe remain) and it has never been an issue. Our supply lines were 1/2" overhead copper and that was replaced with 3/4".

As stated before, it is 95% or very high probability they used PVC drain piping in this place in the late 70's and copper supply lines.

The other consideration is winterization, unless you will heat this year round? Is it set up to easily drain the lines, toilet, etc?

Personally I would not be overly concerned as dave1949 states, if its a nice place, location etc. Maybe you can negotiate a decent price or sort of a "set aside" to cover future plumbing should that become an issue.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Personally I would not be overly concerned as dave1949 states, if its a nice place, location etc. Maybe you can negotiate a decent price or sort of a "set aside" to cover future plumbing should that become an issue.

I agree with this point of view. Determine what it is worth "as is" and negotiate from there. The way it is has been working for years and might well work for decades more but it will break down eventually as everything does. The worst you might have to do is saw a two foot square hole in the slab around the drain pipe and tunnel in from the side to remove and replace a failed section of pipe. Worry about that when the time comes and in the mean time don't pound or twist on the pipes where they go into the slab.

 

[flusher]

I agree with this point of view. Determine what it is worth "as is" and negotiate from there. The way it is has been working for years and might well work for decades more but it will break down eventually as everything does. The worst you might have to do is saw a two foot square hole in the slab around the drain pipe and tunnel in from the side to remove and replace a failed section of pipe. Worry about that when the time comes and in the mean time don't pound or twist on the pipes where they go into the slab.

I agree. Here in CA I'd estimate that 99+% of the home construction is slab with plumbing, gas and electric services in trenches under the slab. I don't think many homeowners lose sleep over leaks. That said, when I lived in a condo in Orange Co (Aliso Viejo) 15 years ago, my downstairs neighbor had a water leak under the slab in her bedroom one Sunday morning. The jackhammering woke me up. Took 2 days to fix the problem. Carpeting had to be replaced, otherwise no other water damage.

Good luck.

 

[kenmac]

As a plumber, it cost more to repair plumbing problems in slab homes than most other types of construction. Leaks are usually harder to find when all the plumbing is in a slab covered in concrete. If I were buying / building a home. A slab home would be of last resort

 

[Alan L.]

Here is a picture of my slab before it was poured back in 2006. You can see the PVC drain pipes going through the beam and also the water lines stubbed out.

 

[kenmac]

Here is a picture of my slab before it was poured back in 2006. You can see the PVC drain pipes going through the beam and also the water lines stubbed out.

Is all that covered with gravel B-4 pouring the concrete ? I see you are in Texas. My brother and aunt live in Texas and, he tells me most homes in Texas are slab homes

 

[Alan L.]

Is all that covered with gravel B-4 pouring the concrete ? I see you are in Texas. My brother and aunt live in Texas and, he tells me most homes in Texas are slab homes

Under the plastic is sand, no gravel. The concrete was poured right in to what you see, after the finished getting all the plastic in (not quite finished in this pic).

 

[kenmac]

Here , all of this would be filled with gravel for the base . Then, concrete. There have been cases where the ground settles (?) causing PVC waste lines/ joints to crack. Knowing what I know, I would at least have a crawl space where every thing is exposed

 

[Egon]

I can deal with the main water line coming in through the floor, I can deal with the main sanitary/sewage line exiting through the floor. The thought of the entire water distribution and sanitary distribution network disappearing through the slab into parts unknown is a little disconcerting.

Thanks,
Dave

Check out a new house with bathrooms in the basement.

 

[Egon]

So, what do you do when something needs service, start surgically tearing into the slab. I like my basement acess, would even settle for a crawl space, the slab sounds problematic at best and a repair headache when the time comes.

Going to get another look before I sign any papers. There is a local "inspector" that's going to look at the place and give me his opinion.

Surveryor wants approx $1800 to run the boundary, nail down corners and drop intermediate pins, thats about $1 per foot of boundary.

Will update at that time.

Thanks,
Dave

In my son's basement there are removable covers at critical covered plumbing points.

 

[paulharvey]

Its a regional thing, but here in FL over 95% of homes,multi family, and commercial construction is "slab on grade".

The advantages of water lines under slab (they're not in the concrete, but under) is they are protected, you have less drilling of studs, and less conflicts between the big 3 subs (HVAC, Electrician, and Plumber).

Disadvantage is that if for some reason you have what is called a slab leak (a leak under the slab) you have to pull up carpet/tile and cut concrete.

Truthfully slab leaks are rare, and with the proper device you can narrow the location of one down to a square foot of floor area, and sawing concrete isn't that big of a deal. They use a special stethoscope to listen for the leak I think (never actually seen them do it).

 

[QueBota]

Best case scenario I would like to build an actual house, the lot is big enough (400+ feet on all boundaries) to locate a house closer to the center of the lot.

Current house is too close to downhill boundary and structures on the adjoining lot. I would leave the current house in place as a possible guest house or weekly/weekend rental. Many things to do close by, ski resorts, state parks and forests, trout fishing, deer, bear, turkeys etc.

Thanks for all the input, really appreciate it. This has to be one of the best forums on the web. Lots of experienced members with practical, working knowledge on almost any subject. It's like a virtual general/feed store were folks come to give/receive advice.

Dave

 

[QueBota]

I currently own (along with the bank and county) a 1979 home with a full bath in the basement. All of the sanitary lines as well as the drain for the washer disappear into the floor, I can deal with that.

The water supply to the downstairs bath is overhead, same for the washer.

The major problem I have with the current setup is there is no floor drain(s) in the basement slab. Have never lived in a home without that before. It's a split level ranch. If something in the basement lets go the house will fill up with water. I always shut off the well pump if we are going to be gone for more than a day.

Thanks,
Dave

Check out a new house with bathrooms in the basement.

 

[dmccarty]

Most of my family lived for decades on slab homes in FLA. Not one ever had a problem with the plumbing under the slab. My parents only had one basement home. Every other home has been a slab. Our city house in NC was a slab home built around 1975. No problems with the plumbing.

Personally, I HATE crawl spaces and the idea of having a toilet on wood makes me shudder. One morning, our toilet over flowed in our city slab house. To make it worse, the danged toilet kept running so it dumped more water on the floor. :shocked: Did I mention I was late to a closing? The closing on our loan to build our current house? :shocked: After I stopped the toilet, and sorta clean up the mess, the wifey had to deal with most of the water, I went the lawyers office. The closing was a disaster but that is another story. Luckily, the slab was unlevel from the bathroom to the laundry room so the water stayed on vinyl flooring and did not get to the carpet. It would have been worse if we had been on a crawl space or basement. A coworker bought a fairly new house with a crawl space and had to completely redo the bathroom floor because the toilet had leaked and rotted out the subflooring. The floor, including the tile, had to be ripped up and replaced.

When we built our country house we put in a slab. Most people would have put in a crawl space, and given that we have a decent elevation change, so that one side of the house is about 18 inches above grade and the other is about 60 inches, a crawl space would have been a what most people would have done. Instead of a crawl space, the foundation was filled with 67 stone and then a slab was poured over rigid insulation. The PVC is was installed, sealed and pressurized before the gravel was put into place. 67 stone compacts as it is laid and does not settle. The pressure gauges showed no leakage and eventually the slab was poured. No problems in 10 years.

A neighbor has a crawl space and I don't know if they have fixed their messy crawl space. I looked into the crawl space when the house was mostly finished and about to be foreclosed. Long story there. Anyway, the house was maybe 6-9 months hold and the crawlspace was full of moisture and multi colored mold. :shocked: Now that ain't normal in a crawlspace but it is the sort of problems/nightmare one can get. Now a days, I would build a crawlspace that was sealed if I had to have a crawlspace.

A crawlspace to me is a negative, not a positive in a house.

Later,
Dan