Generators to support major operations

[ultrarunner]

And how many times did your tests "fail"?

I've a 10 year old gennie 6KW? I test about once every two months. A couple of times I needed ether. I know people that change their oil every 3,000 miles. Doesn't mean it needs to be done.

How much did that change to testing every other week affect reliability?
.

Not testing every week means lower fuel consumption... Typically, I would order a bulk delivery once a year and now it is every other year.

Big problem in my area is metal theives and rodents... a nearby hospital had a rat do 30k worth of damage to one of their units... who knows... maybe a weekly run schedule would have thwarted the rat from nest building?

Scavengers have been relentless... part of the daily rounds is to check the roof and grounds for loss and damage...

One night I get a call at 3 am that a toilet is not working... while I'm thinking why would I get a call when there are many toilets the nurse says there are no toilets on the floor working???

I get dressed and drive in.

Ten minutes later, as I approach, I see a geyser 30 feet in the air... metal theives stole two large backflow valves and left the entire facility without water...

Point is even with proper safegards and secure areas... nothing is 100%

For decades the gold standard for Hospital Emergency Power included weekly testing and still does in most parts of the county.

 

[dave1949]

It is possible to build generator backup systems that will switch massive power loads with close to zero fluctuation.

The NATO bunker I worked in had very large electric motors that spun huge flywheels 24/7/365 using utility power. There were diesel engines at the other end of the flywheels with a clutch between the engine and flywheel. Utility power kept the clutches disengaged. If utility power was lost, the clutches engaged and the flywheels would spin-up the diesel engines. The engines had coolant and oil heaters supplied by utility power, they were always pre-warmed.

Our computer systems from mainframes to minis never crashed in switch over tests which removed utility power from everything.

 

[V1Rotate]

It is possible to build generator backup systems that will switch massive power loads with close to zero fluctuation.

The NATO bunker I worked in had very large electric motors that spun huge flywheels 24/7/365 using utility power. There were diesel engines at the other end of the flywheels with a clutch between the engine and flywheel. Utility power kept the clutches disengaged. If utility power was lost, the clutches engaged and the flywheels would spin-up the diesel engines. The engines had coolant and oil heaters supplied by utility power, they were always pre-warmed.

Our computer systems from mainframes to minis never crashed in switch over tests which removed utility power from everything.

That's really interesting

 

[3930dave]

Even today's basic residential auto-start/xfer Generac systems can be up pretty quickly.

If I arrived at the doors of Emergency the split second the line power dropped, by the time the doors were pried open and I managed to move say 30' into the building, I'd like to think that all the available generator assets were fully up to speed and supporting their dedicated loads by then.

I'm not aware of any significant technical barriers to my expectation. And yes, as '1949 detailed, the technology to greatly exceed the performance level that I'm talking about was figured out a long time ago.

Rgds, D.

 

[Scooby074]

It is possible to build generator backup systems that will switch massive power loads with close to zero fluctuation.

The NATO bunker I worked in had very large electric motors that spun huge flywheels 24/7/365 using utility power. There were diesel engines at the other end of the flywheels with a clutch between the engine and flywheel. Utility power kept the clutches disengaged. If utility power was lost, the clutches engaged and the flywheels would spin-up the diesel engines. The engines had coolant and oil heaters supplied by utility power, they were always pre-warmed.

Our computer systems from mainframes to minis never crashed in switch over tests which removed utility power from everything.

Thats very cool. Ive read about flywheel UPS before but this is the first testimonial ive seen. Its amazing what can be done with basically an unlimited military budget.

 

[ultrarunner]

Even today's basic residential auto-start/xfer Generac systems can be up pretty quickly.

If I arrived at the doors of Emergency the split second the line power dropped, by the time the doors were pried open and I managed to move say 30' into the building, I'd like to think that all the available generator assets were fully up to speed and supporting their dedicated loads by then.

I'm not aware of any significant technical barriers to my expectation. And yes, as '1949 detailed, the technology to greatly exceed the performance level that I'm talking about was figured out a long time ago.

Rgds, D.

The Hospital Standard is 10 seconds... this is why all operating rooms also have battery wall mounted lights to cover the few seconds of transition if they don't have line battery backup.

Typically, OR Beds, Monitors, Emergency Equipment is battery powered and the line power keeps the batteries charged and will power should there be a battery problem.

I go through a pick-up load of batteries just keeping up and many of the replaced batteries end up in friends computer battery back-ups.

In practice... my Turbo Cummins units start, come up to speed and transfer power in 6 seconds.

Even though I'm in a mild California climate... the block heaters keep the coolant between 160 and 180 F 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Each unit is monitored and will alarm should any number of problems arise... such as low coolant temp, long cranking time, oil pressure, speed fluctation, etc.

 

[dave1949]

That's really interesting

It was interesting, probably designed in the late 1950's. When money is no object, interesting things are possible, just like today. :laughing:

The ERWIN Bunker was combined with a nearby radar installation built on a hilltop named Erbeskopf. The radar site was built before the underground bunker itself. "Heritage head" in the translations is the literal meaning of Erbeskopf in German.

You can read a little about the place here, (use translate to English if you are using Chrome) or Google "ERWIN bunker" for English results. Boerfink was the village nearest the bunker. The bunker has been closed for many years now. Oddly, the size of the bunker was about doubled in the early 1990's but that portion was never put into service as the Cold War was winding down. They knew it would not be needed but under German law, cancelling a contract is almost as expensive as going forward with the project. The contracts probably dated back to the mid '80s.

Kommandobunker Börfink

 

[3930dave]

The Hospital Standard is 10 seconds... this is why all operating rooms also have battery wall mounted lights to cover the few seconds of transition if they don't have line battery backup.

Typically, OR Beds, Monitors, Emergency Equipment is battery powered and the line power keeps the batteries charged and will power should there be a battery problem.

I go through a pick-up load of batteries just keeping up and many of the replaced batteries end up in friends computer battery back-ups.

In practice... my Turbo Cummins units start, come up to speed and transfer power in 6 seconds.

Even though I'm in a mild California climate... the block heaters keep the coolant between 160 and 180 F 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Each unit is monitored and will alarm should any number of problems arise... such as low coolant temp, long cranking time, oil pressure, speed fluctation, etc.

That is the response level, timing, and oversight I'd hope to see.

Given the capital and operating budget of a large modern hospital, our overall reliance on electricity, and the relative decline in the cost of standby power systems (relative to the custom Mil engineering '1949 describes) I can see no good reason for a hospital to be w/o near instant transfer to emergency power.

It doesn't make sense to have anything less, in a critical operation like a hospital.

Rgds, D.

 

[aczlan]

Thats very cool. Ive read about flywheel UPS before but this is the first testimonial ive seen. Its amazing what can be done with basically an unlimited military budget.

Server co-location facilities also have similar systems. That also gets rid of power spikes which can damage equipment.

Aaron Z

 

[Scooby074]

Server co-location facilities also have similar systems. That also gets rid of power spikes which can damage equipment.

Aaron Z

Off the top of my head, I believe that flywheel technology has been considered for improving hybrid vehicles too. I think it might even be part of the KERS system in modern F1.