Ideas on Hay Shed floors ?

[RedNeckRacin]

Oh, I definitely know that position! I was freaking out to get my little cheap-o storage shelter in because it was already past fall cutting and I am poor and cannot buy $10+/bale hay. I barely made it!

Whew, that does suck about the canvas, but I know PA winters can be harsh (grew up in OH river valley, N KY and ohhhh, so much ice and freeze and snow and thaw and ice!). Disclaimer: I do redneck repairs due to aforementioned poverty, LOL, there may be better ways. What I use, although have not tried it on tarp yet, have used a LOT on horse blankets, it retains their waterproofness and breathability, my boys get rough:

Depending on size of hole/tear and my estimate of future stress on area -- I usually hand stitch the edges together (w/ skill roughly equivalent to Dr. Frankenstein), then paint it excessively with this to re-waterproof (Seamsure Seam Sealer 2oz in Blanket Accessories at Schneider Saddlery). If I am in a hurry, want another layer, or have not so much faith in my sewing, I add this (Stormshieldｮ Horse Blanket Repair Tape in Blanket Accessories at Schneider Saddlery) which you can slap on just like tape. You CAN iron/heat it for extra stickiness, sew the edges, or, if you are lazy like me, slop more of the magic glue/paint around the edges.



I will be adding this to my fabric shed before spring, it is designed for the shed, but the way it is made, you could put it on any stretched fabric you wanted. You can also replace the plastic rivets with nylon nuts/washers.
ShelterLogic Instant Garage Vent Kit | Anchors, Bungees Accessories| Northern Tool + Equipment

And now you're just rubbing it in. You suck.

Well, the winters play havoc with anything stored outside, and seeing how the tarps are the only line of defense against the elements, they get used and abused. I think my canvas is shot, but i was looking for something to apply to the new one. The holes are partly caused by animals eating it (mice or rats) and the exposure it has gotten from the elements. I am currently using it as is because the darn thing was around $100 i think. I'm not much for sewing but I think I need to look into frankensteining parts of it maybe? I think the water has penetrated into the fabric and I seem to remember an old tarp we had on a dozer that was soaked with diesel and oil that last a good number of years although, for hay that doesn't seem like a very good option! I think I have some leather conditioner but I don't have any idea if that would work on canvas.

I like the vent idea, but I don't think I can bring myself to cut a hole in a $900 tarp. I was actually thinking of a fan with some ductwork to pull the moist air out during the summer time? We have a small unit that we use at work for working on confined spaces that looks like it would work. I know I could get it cheaper since it doesn't need to be intrinsically safe to.


Sorry about rubbing that in. It's not that I'm gloating, but if you have any hesitation about it (price wise is understandable though) you should def. look into mechanizing it.

 

[eventer79]

I know, they are crazy expensive. I want to put one under my pallets, but I can't bring myself to spend that much on a tarp, even a 10' x 10'. I totally understand not wanting to cut it -- the thought of cutting holes in my $220 (hey, I work for the state, I got nuthin') hay shed hurts me, but not as much as damaging the hay inside, which is worth way more than $200! A $900 one, whew, I don't think I could do it either. What about an attic fan type system if you have power access? That doesn't seem like it would be too hard to slap together some kind of frame. As long as the motor doesn't heat, seems like it would perform the same function.

The sewing does take some patience, but I've always managed to get through it telling myself it's cheaper than a new $150 turnout blanket. Alternatively, I have used staples on other fabrics, although you have to use a lot to make it work and there can't be much stress on the seam (I've hemmed pants and a skirt that way, heh, yeah, I have no shame).

Just working off the top of my head, you could put on a blanket tape patch (or other canvas or fabric you like, cut patches to fit) on either one side or both sides and epoxy the crap out of the edges (I also have to fix all of our field equipment at work, it requires creativity because it has to work in a river). There aren't too many things I haven't been able to patch with heavy duty epoxy and/or WaterWeld. The latter is now the only reason our work boat doesn't sink, it meets a lot of rocks.

There are also waterproofing tent sprays out there. I don't have a link, but they should have them at most camping supply type outdoor places for fabrics that get leaky, I do know that works on horse blankets, again, haven't tried that on tarp canvas.

And LOL, that's ok, I'd rub it in too. I sometimes can't help but taunt my northern friends with pictures of me riding in a t-shirt in February. They don't like it either, but it's all in good fun.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

That attic fan is pretty much what I was thinking. I have access about 35 feet away. I stack the hay right outside of the barn where we keep the horses. Well, to be fair, my wife's business bought the tarp but it still was expensive! I hate spending money on tarps because I know they have a pretty short life expentancy but I sure can't seem to get by without them!

WEll, I dunno about using staples, but I have used baler twine to hold my pants up a time or two! I just don't know if its going to be worth the hassle of trying to sew the tarp especially since I really need it this time of year to keep the snow and ice off of the hay. What in the world is "water weld"? I guess I'm going to have to just try a couple different things to see what works. The tarp doesn't stay over the same hay for very long, 2 weeks tops. I go through 4 round bales about every 5 days or so.

I just really need to build the addition onto the barn when the wife sets some money aside and I can put most of this tarp business behind me!



Well, I think working outside in a tshirt in february sounds like a great idea, but our summers are hot enough up here that I don't think I would want to be any farther south.

 

[DK_Farms]

I can relate to several things mentioned in this thread. I just built a new hay barn as well. 50x150x16 with 100 of it closed in. For square bale Bale BandIt bundles inside and 4x5 rounds outside. I bought 250 plastic pallets (used) from a shipper near New Orleans and I put that under the bundles and rounds. Used wood pallets for years but they rot and break up fairly quick if you handle them alot. Besides they are getting real heavy in my old age, too. I am glad I use pallets because at the last minute before construction began I got spooked about being too close to a fence line and moved the barn over 20 feet. Dummy me, didn't realize that put me off my crown. After putting a gravel pad down, the floor on the door side of the barn is low and water comes in. I had to make a ditch in the barn to drain water out the end! Now after I sell down the inventory, I will be hauling dirt IN the barn to build up the floor. Down here, concrete is expensive and it sweats from humidity in the air even with a moisture barrier so you still have to put hay on pallets. If you use gravel and a horse customer finds a rock in the hay, it's all over.

As for tarps, I use old vinyl billboard tarps. There are several advertising companies that sell them around here. I can get a 28x56 for around $50 . They last a couple years so they are a bargain in my opinion compared to Tractor Supply and Farmtek tarps. They will sweat so it's important to leave about a 2 foot section of exposed hay all around the bottom to minimize mold, especially on the top bales. Regardless, some bales do get bad no matter what you do. I think that is just an occupational hazard of using tarps in my opinion. I will continue to use them when I have too only because there is a solution that is cheap and readily available for me.

 

[coondle]

There are many ways to build a hay shed floor floors that can be trafficked by machines loading hay in and out.
A few years ago short of pennies and needing a shed with a solid waterproof traffickable floor on which to store hay I came up with the following solution. It may be useful to others.
I built a steel-framed, steel-sheeted shed measuring 16 metres (52 feet) by 25 metres (83 feet) with a minimum of 4.5 metres (15 feet ) under the purlins. Then came the need to put in a floor.
The solution:
Visit the local quarry crushing granite for aggregate. for road surfacing and concrete etc. Quarries produce huge quantities of crusher dust also known as cracker dust, fines or screenings. The particles are sub 2mm (1/12 of an inch ) in the coarsest grade and like flour in the finest grade. I bought alternating loads of dust, my truck could move 15 tonnes(16.5 US tons) per load and I hauled in 90 tonnes (109 US tons). Cost for the dust, $270.00.
Next I purchased 100 metres (330feet) of builders' film. Black plastic used to put a water proof membrane below a concrete slab, 20 microns thick, I think that translates 50 thousands of an inch. Cost $350.00.
Next came the cement, I do not know your grade but the ordinary cement that is mixed 5;3;1 to make concrete. I bought 12 tonnes (13.2 US tons) in Bulka bags each holding 1 tonne. Cost under $2,000.
Method :
Lay the builders film on the ground which has been levelled and compacted. My dirt is solid so no need to compact it.
Form up the area you can manage. On my own i needed to keep it to just over 4 metres (13.2 ft)or one sixth of the shed depth, by 8 metres (26.4 ft) being half the shed width and 150mm (6inches) deep with the plastic under, the formwork.
This area coincided with my cement ratio and is one twelfth of the floor area so one bulka bag of cement per mix.
Working outside the formed up area, with a front end loader, place enough cracker dust to fill the formed up area. I have a 10 ton 125 hp industrial FEL with a 1.7 cu metre water-level general purpose bucket (no teeth).
Put a conical depression in the pile of cracker dust and the put cement onto/into the top of the cracker dust. Lifted on with the front end loader and dumped via the chute built into the Bulka bag.
Cracker dust is very sharp despite being fine so mixed with cement it is able to bond together well but not as good as concrete with aggregate but nowhere near the price.
Using the FEL turn over the heap mixing the cement and cracker dust thoroughly.
Load the thoroughly mixed cracker dust and cement into the formed up area and screed to reasonably level.
With a plate compacter compact the area thoroughly, then screed to level with the formwork.
Spray water onto the mix using a fine spray but plenty of water until the whole area is flooded and water remains on the top.
Sprinkle liberal quantities of raw cement on the surface of the newly laid and wet floor, and with reasonable amounts of water create a surface slurry that is then trowelled to a smooth surface. The effect is similar to case-hardening steel. This must be done before the recently placed watered material has properly set, that way a good bond is achieved between the mixed material and the cement slurry with the loose cracker dust mixing with the cement slurry .
Use a trowel to bevel the edges or get a rolled edge on the formed up area to give a tidy joint between the various floor panels.
Keep a very fine mist of water on the surface for 12 or more hours.
Repeat in sections until the whole floor is done.
Where any vehicles enter/exit, cast a beam in 5:3:1 concrete and even put some reinforcing mesh on this edge beam to act as a protector.
For the first couple of years I have used more builders film on the top of the concrete until the moisture used in the mix has dissipated .
The floor is not as strong as concrete but stands up to my loader and my truck. My big truck is a a Volvo 4 axle truck grossing o 27.5 tonnes (over 30 US tons).
You cannot work on the floor with hammering or the like as you would a workshop floor. However I use it when clear of hay for servicing machinery and trucks etc. Using jacks for example is no problem.
This gave me nearly 4500 sq feet of heavy duty traffic floor for under $3,000, excluding my time and trucking of materials, but.
including the extra topping cement, formwork , and the plate compacter.


If you do not need water proofing then the mixing can be done after the materials are placed levelled in the formwork. Put in the cracker dust and place the cement evenly across the whole area to be mixed. Then mix the cement into the cracker dust with a rotary hoe being careful to minimise the penetration below the cracker dust to prevent contamination of the mix with soil. Compact the mix and water down as set out in the method above then top off with slurry and provide any edge protection necessary.

Floor has been in use for 6 seasons now and has stood up well to usage. I damaged an area with hay fork impact but just cleaned out the broken material, mixed a small quantity of cracker dust and cement in a cement mixer including water and a bonding agent in the proportion 1:10 water. Applied a small mix of 1 part bonding agent to 3 water sprayed onto the damaged area . Put the cement CD mix in the damage and trowel level.

For a couple of years I used builders film to protect the hay placed on the floor from the water contained in the cement. When using builders film I sprinkle a thin layer of dry hay to stop fresh bales from sweating against the plastic. About 10 bales of hay left over from last season are enough to give sufficient coverage over the entire floor to prevent sweating.

Cimate here is Mediterranean with hot dry summers, occasional thunderstorms and wet winters with minima on around 20 days of no less than minus 5*C, and with about another 20 or so days with fog of a few hours duration, usually no more than 8 hours.

Soil however retains soil moisture even in the driest summers sufficient to cause mould damage to hay in contact within one week of placement .
Unlike my fellow Western Australian, snakes are not an issue for me but saying that had a Dugite (poisonous variety) observed moving in this year but not seen since,......YET. Mice are an issue eating twine on bales and damaging bales. Pallets give mice a refuge and clear access to the entire stack, so pallets are not a viable storage system.

I know that this type of floor will not suit everyone because of differing materials availability and climate but hope someone finds this of use.

 

[Chilly807]

We have a concrete floor in our hay storage, we put a layer of vapour barrier plastic over the concrete, then wooden pallets over the plastic, then the hay bales. Zero problems with rot or mould, the pallets come up and the plastic gets rolled up as the hay is used and the area gets swept clear of chaff and loose hay regularly. The pallets are free at the local hardware store, although some need a bit of repair or some added slats to make them safe to walk on.

Sean

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I know all to well about the tarps sweating and I am really looking forward to getting the addition put up so I don't have to risk life and limb trying to pull the tarp back to get to the hay and pull it back down all while trying to figure out how to resecure it so the wind doesn't carry it away. I'm not real happy with them, but since I didn't win the powerball the other day, I gotta make due for now. I really dont like trying to pry frozen pallets off the ground but I get them for free so if I break them or run them over, I just throw them in a burn pile.

 

[jerry shannon]

I agree with the wooden pallets. Here in Michigan, my main barn is a dirt floor. I use about 100 round 4x6 bales per season for my 5 horses and a few goats. I put down used wood pallets and put the bales on them round side down. Could stack them 3 rows high no problem.Bottom of the bales are perfect. Dry, clean and allowed air to circulate under them.

 

[Chilly807]

I agree with the wooden pallets. Here in Michigan, my main barn is a dirt floor. I use about 100 round 4x6 bales per season for my 5 horses and a few goats. I put down used wood pallets and put the bales on them round side down. Could stack them 3 rows high no problem.Bottom of the bales are perfect. Dry, clean and allowed air to circulate under them.

When you say round side down, you mean sitting like a tin can, on the flat end? Or on their rounded edges? Just trying to get a picture in my head... every time I've tried to stack them on the round edges they want to roll out on me. Nothing like getting mowed down by a runaway 600 lb round bale..

Sean

 

[jerry shannon]

When you say round side down, you mean sitting like a tin can, on the flat end? Or on their rounded edges? Just trying to get a picture in my head... every time I've tried to stack them on the round edges they want to roll out on me. Nothing like getting mowed down by a runaway 600 lb round bale..

Sean

I can see where that would ruin your day! I do in fact store my round bales on the round. Not like a tin can as you said. I started with my first bale on the flat side down like a tin can as the anchor and then all the rest are on the round edge down. Double and triple stacking works out nice for me as my Bobcat Skidsteer has the reach to stack them and you get good air circulation as well. I end a row with a bale on the flat side down like I start to help lock them in. The rounds seem to want to squish down a little anyway and that also keeps them from rolling. Seems to work for me this way so far and not one bale has tried to "chase me" out of the barn. At least not yet.