Seriously...TPMS?

[rsallen]

So who volunteers to be an innocent for this greater cause? Let's see a show of hands.

Audi and a very few other European manufacturers did (no longer) offer the option of turning off the ABS for a couple of reasons. Probably the biggest being (like apparently still) the perception the they get in the way of 'feel'. The other reason, more reasonable imho, is that there are some maneuvers with a car that just can not be done when the ABS is in operation.

And I would offer that anyone that uses brakes to test how the driving surface is holding is already too detached from the driving experience to be playing around with no ABS. Because I don't volunteer to be an innocent.

 

[GolfAddict]

How is it a "bad" law? ...

Because it is another mandate from our government, and I don't like my government mandating me to purchase things.

You are giving excellent arguments for the advantages of having TPMS, and I happen to agree with them. I think TPMS is a great idea and appreciate that my car has it. Here are some other things my car has. I'd be curious to know which of these you think would also be a good law to force people to purchase.

-It also has rain-sensing wipers and I love them. When they come on, my headlights go on. Love that too.

-It has a backup camera and I think that's great too.

-It has ABS brakes.

-It has Heads Up Display.

-It has daytime running lights.

-There is this lane departure warning that buzzes one of my legs, whichever side I'm drifting over on, and shows up a little car icon going out of it's lane on the display. It's pretty cool, and can no doubt save many accidents.

-It has this blind spot warning thing that's really cool too. Shows a little icon light of my car and another car in my blind spot on the side view mirrors.

-It has this feature that tells you if a car is coming either way cross traffic if you are in reverse, like backing out of a parking spot or driveway. Shows an icon on which side it's coming and buzzes your leg on that side.

-As I come up behind another car, a little green icon shows up shaped like the rear of a car. If you get too close, it turns yellow. If it turns red you're really close and about to hit. It will apply brakes, tighten seat belt, some other things too I can't remember. If you had the cruise control on you're OK though, cause it already slowed you down to match the speed of the car ahead.

-It has a navigation system that talks to me when I want it to. Warns me when turns are coming up, which lane I need to be in, that kind of thing. Really helpful when you are trying to find your way somewhere and makes me much less of a hazard to other drivers.

-It has front and rear airbags, side air bags, knee air bags, curtain airbags.

It probably has more safety features that I'm not remembering right now. It has all these things because I wanted them and was willing to pay for them. They are great safety features, in my opinion anyway.

I don't think they'd make good laws...

 

[check]

:thumbsup: Next up: they are pushing for mandated back up cameras

Now that I could go for! I have one on mt F150 and it is invaluable.

 

[rsallen]

Golfaddict are you asking which of those in your list are mandated? Or about the ones that are so ubiquitous in todays world that they have become standard equipment because of the obvious advantages of them?

 

[GolfAddict]

I'm asking what he thinks should be mandated. If he thinks TPMS makes a good law, what other sort of safety features should be made a law? Surely this isn't the only one...

 

[DK35vince]

And I would offer that anyone that uses brakes to test how the driving surface is holding is already too detached from the driving experience to be playing around with no ABS. Because I don't volunteer to be an innocent.

Are you serious. That statement is ridiculous.
Its exactly the opposite.
The person that doesn't have enough control over the brakes themselves and rely on the vehicle and ABS to do the stopping for them or needs traction control to control the throttle/acceleration for them in poor conditions is the one detached

 

[rsallen]

Completely serious.
You can't be serious to think you can out perform ABS in any circumstance you care to name.

Myself I'm not a real fan of traction control (an off shoot of ABS) and turn it off when I have the chance, but that's only because it doesn't allow me to play.
For every day point a to point b though it doesn't get in the way so what's the big deal? After all another off shoot of ABS/traction control is the antiskid/roll over featured in many of the top heavy vehicles made today...... after all one never knows about the next bend.
That computer thinks and corrects about a million time faster than you or I can.

To ABS though, go head to head with the rawest driver you can find in a braking test; you with no ABS them with, heck use a skid pad if you want use snow if you want, dirt, dry pavement any condition you want. That raw driver will out perform you in braking in every way.
Yeah, I'm serious.

 

[aczlan]

Completely serious.
You can't be serious to think you can out perform ABS in any circumstance you care to name.

Myself I'm not a real fan of traction control (an off shoot of ABS) and turn it off when I have the chance, but that's only because it doesn't allow me to play.
For every day point a to point b though it doesn't get in the way so what's the big deal? After all another off shoot of ABS/traction control is the antiskid/roll over featured in many of the top heavy vehicles made today...... after all one never knows about the next bend.
That computer thinks and corrects about a million time faster than you or I can.

To ABS though, go head to head with the rawest driver you can find in a braking test; you with no ABS them with, heck use a skid pad if you want use snow if you want, dirt, dry pavement any condition you want. That raw driver will out perform you in braking in every way.
Yeah, I'm serious.

While I generally agree with your statement, in low traction situations (deep snow, gravel, dirt, etc) ABS can actually cause longer stopping distances. From Wikipedia:

A 2004 Australian study by Monash University Accident Research Centre found that ABS:[1]
Reduced the risk of multiple vehicle crashes by 18 percent,
Increased the risk of run-off-road crashes by 35 percent.
On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, or concrete, many (though not all) ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be possible without the benefit of ABS. In real world conditions, even an alert and experienced driver without ABS would find it difficult to match or improve on the performance of a typical driver with a modern ABS-equipped vehicle. ABS reduces chances of crashing, and/or the severity of impact. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control.
In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS calibrations reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly briefly lock and unlock. Some vehicle manufacturers provide an "off-road" button to turn ABS function off. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid, though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces such as gravel or on slippery surfaces such as snow or ice. On a very slippery surface such as sheet ice or gravel, it is possible to lock multiple wheels at once, and this can defeat ABS (which relies on comparing all four wheels, and detecting individual wheels skidding). Availability of ABS relieves most drivers from learning threshold braking.

Aaron Z

 

[rsallen]

Oops my bad Golfaddict, I thought it was directed at me.

 

[check]

Completely serious. You can't be serious to think you can out perform ABS in any circumstance you care to name. Myself I'm not a real fan of traction control (an off shoot of ABS) and turn it off when I have the chance, but that's only because it doesn't allow me to play. For every day point a to point b though it doesn't get in the way so what's the big deal? After all another off shoot of ABS/traction control is the antiskid/roll over featured in many of the top heavy vehicles made today...... after all one never knows about the next bend. That computer thinks and corrects about a million time faster than you or I can. To ABS though, go head to head with the rawest driver you can find in a braking test; you with no ABS them with, heck use a skid pad if you want use snow if you want, dirt, dry pavement any condition you want. That raw driver will out perform you in braking in every way. Yeah, I'm serious.

Different issues here. ABS is great for stopping and maintaining control in a skid. But, I still test the traction periodically when on a snowy or changing road, so I can adjust my travel speed accordingly. The simple reason is that the ABS will not save you if you go around a corner way too fast - you will be making a visit to the ditch

Moreover, a visual assessment of the road is not enough in a lot of cases. You really need to test for traction by braking in a safe place (not a curve) to see how easily you lose traction. It only makes sense, as I tell myself every time I come across another ditched driver who took a turn too fast.