PTO Generator

[Willie B]

I went through the debate with myself a year or so ago and ended up installing a 12.5kw diesel generator from Central Maine Diesel and had an electrician install a new 200 amp panel with auto transfer switch. The generator powers almost everything except the 4 ton heat pump and some other big loads, but it does our little ductless heat pump system in the basement and 2.5 ton heat pump in the upstairs plus well pump, 2 freezers, 2 frigs, virtually all the lights and even our one hot water heater on load management (the clothes dryer and kitchen stovetop are also on load management). It ran last year for 15 minutes every 2 weeks and once for about 4 hours or so in the middle of the night during a power failure. Used 2.5 gallons of diesel for the year.

Cost was about $15k for everything.

Problem with PTO generators is 1) need lots of diesel on hand and constant refueling if out for more than 6 or 8 hours (probably all yours will run on a full tank), 2) you'll need the tractor for snow clearing or clearing downed trees, 3) pain to connect up.

We lived with these problems (excl. #2) with a 4 kw gasoline generator for about 5 or 6 years. It, of course, wouldn't power that much either, but we got by during several power failures and didn't lose any refrigerated or frozen food. 'twas a real pain and safety issue keeping a bunch of gasoline around.

Now, I refuel my tractor from the gen's 60 gallon tank and every so often go and buy some more containers of diesel and pour them back, replenishing and keeping the fuel fresh.

One problem you divert with a PTO generator is how to keep the battery up. On a standby generator, you need a battery tender. Learned this while having the 4 kw one. However, the battery tender went out on the 12.5 kw gen recently and let the battery run down (the gen battery also powers the LED lights and controls on the ATS panel). Do not buy a battery tender that does the voltage conversion at the plug. They fail where the wire gets bent when you close the weather proof box where they're plugged in. I have a weather proof battery tender on it now.

Ralph

Be aware that diesel fuel doesn't last forever, additives are available to extend the life of fuel. Modern common rail engines are more sensitive to bad fuel than older ones. I have a petcock at the lowest point of my tank. I can drain a small amount fuel into a glass jar to check for water, or sludge.

 

[looch]

Be aware that diesel fuel doesn't last forever, additives are available to extend the life of fuel. Modern common rail engines are more sensitive to bad fuel than older ones. I have a petcock at the lowest point of my tank. I can drain a small amount fuel into a glass jar to check for water, or sludge.

Thanks for that Willie, but with the snow we've had this year I think I have already burned more fuel than the last 3 combined.

And to everyone else, switching my pump to 220 is simple enough, I even have a spare double pole 15A sitting in my panel. All I need is the wire. Thanks!

I will have some load management issues - 2 sumps, fridge, freezer, well pump and 3000 watt hot water tank - no way will my 16hp PTO do them all. But I'm okay with running a few things at a time. I will have to think about an appropriately sized transfer switch - with 2 220 volt circuits, I'm thinking a 10 circuit unit is the minimum. And even though my tractor won't power it all, I think a generator in the 10-12 KW range may be better than strangling every last bit out of a 7200 watt unit.

 

[Willie B]

Thanks for that Willie, but with the snow we've had this year I think I have already burned more fuel than the last 3 combined.

And to everyone else, switching my pump to 220 is simple enough, I even have a spare double pole 15A sitting in my panel. All I need is the wire. Thanks!
Probably no need for new wire, copper doesn't care about voltage, It's the insulation you might care about. Most all home wire is good, I would re identify the white conductor with red tape or paint.
I will have some load management issues - 2 sumps, fridge, freezer, well pump and 3000 watt hot water tank - no way will my 16hp PTO do them all. But I'm okay with running a few things at a time. I will have to think about an appropriately sized transfer switch - with 2 220 volt circuits, I'm thinking a 10 circuit unit is the minimum. And even though my tractor won't power it all, I think a generator in the 10-12 KW range may be better than strangling every last bit out of a 7200 watt unit.

Probably no need for new wire, I would move the neutral (white) to the breaker coloring it red. Be sure to make the correct changes in the pump motor.

 

[Willie B]

I mentioned it because a free magazine I receive had an article on the sensitivity of modern engines. The author sells diesel monitoring service, he may have had motivation to exaggerate. Our local phone company has a small switch gear building in each small town. They installed generators 15 years ago. With 275 gallon tanks they had engine failures.

 

[RoyJackson]

I mentioned it because a free magazine I receive had an article on the sensitivity of modern engines. The author sells diesel monitoring service, he may have had motivation to exaggerate. Our local phone company has a small switch gear building in each small town. They installed generators 15 years ago. With 275 gallon tanks they had engine failures.

Were the failures due to the fuel, specifically?

 

[Willie B]

It wasn't me who tore them down, and it was a while ago, memory is a little foggy. As I remember, yes something about fuel breaking down damaging injectors. In this case it wasn't a problem, tanks indoors, climate controlled. Moisture forms sulfuric acid. "Expert" who wrote the magazine article said 3 months.

 

[tangstang79]

Need some advice.

I think I'll start drinking after this XMAS....

Here in Southern NB, we have had big power issues due to basically a 3 day ice storm that has left many parts still with no power. We lost power here on the 23rd and actually got it back late on XMAS eve just in time to have everyone over for an xmas eve party. We had a basically a brand new Briggs and Stratton E Series Gen that lasted 26 hours before it started spewing oil out of a grommet coming out of the side of the engine. The In-laws are still out as we then scrambled to find another generator to try to keep their house from freezing. (Was -18C 2 nights ago). We ended up borrowing 2 more gens with one of them having intermittent problems as well.

Meanwhile, my JD 2320 is always there any usable so I think it is time to get a PTO generator so that if this ever happens again I will not have to screw with a bunch of unreliable gassers that most likely not work when I need them.

So I have been looking for a PTO Gen and with only 18HP at the PTO I am really limited to 9KW if you use the accepted math. So here is what I have come up with:

BaumaLight TX7
BaumaLight - TX Generators
Pro's - 7KW and can surge to 9KW which would be the best fit
Con's - $2K +

VoltMaster 12KW
Voltmaster PTO15/12 PTO Generator - PTO15/12 - 12 kW Tractor-Driven PTO Generator (540 RPM)
Pro's - 12 KW - Cheap
Con's - oversized for tractor????

IMD 10KW
IMD IMD PTO10-2S - 10kW Tractor-Driven PTO Generator | Buy PTO Electric Generators at PowerEquipmentPlus.com
Pro's - 10KW - Price
Con's - Marginally oversized - Some reviews showing issues??

Northern Tool 7.2KW
NorthStar PTO Generator 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators| Northern Tool + Equipment
Pro's - $1K
Con's - 7.2KW with only 7.8KW surge

I obviously want to run as much as I can including Fridge, Freezer, Well Pump, HW Heater (If I Could) and some lights. It would be even better if I could run the 4 Ton Heat Pump but I might be able to run it without anything else which would be fine.

I think the best unit would the BaumaLight one but the Voltmaster has great reviews but would I be making a mistake oversizing the gen. I would assume that once I get past the 9 KW the tractor would start to loose RPM which actually would allow me to max out the capacity?????

Any thoughts and advice?

Cheers,

Just wondering what you decided?

 

[Dave M7040]

If you are considering a transfer switch and emergency panel as part of your setup, I would suggest you look at a GenerLink.com - About GenerLink - The easy way to connect a home generator.
The product goes between most electrical meters and the meter base. Cost approx $1,000 and $150 for an electrician to install. The utility has to shut off your power or work on it live to do the installation. The electrician is there mainly for show as the utility wants one there. Installation takes about 15 minutes at most. Just unplug the meter, connect the Generlink neutral in the meter base then plug everything back together. Most utilities give you one free disconnect a year so they dont charge for their work. (In Canada)

Generlink products come in two sizes and you must buy their cordset to get their special plug which plugs into the generlink. The end which pligs into your generator can be changed to suit what you have.
My friend just installed the 50 amp model and now can power any circuit in his panel assuming he manages the load he puts on the generator. I had a more conventional setup with a manual transfer switch and emergency panel and was always finding I wanted to power up some obscure circuit such as the one to make my satellite receiver switch work. Eventually I installed a 20 kw Generac unit with automatic transfer switch because of failing health and my inability to deal with starting and moving small generators.

The larger Generlink product is not much more than the smaller one so my advice is to buy the larger one so you can get a larger generator in the future. The Generlink is limited to approx 9 to 10 kw.

Dave M7040

 

[mark02tj]

The Generlink is a cool product!! A buddy of mine that works for our local electric company turned me on to them. I was really leaning towards it and then decided to go with an "interlock" setup instead.

Pros of the Generlink are:

• Quick and easy to install (with the power company)
• It can be removed if you sell your house and you can take it with you
• Nothing to switch on or switch off. It automatically detects when the "grid" is back up and won't backfeed into the grid.
• You can run your whole house, assuming you watch your load

Pros of an Interlock

• You can run your whole house, assuming you watch your load
• Less Expensive than the Generlink, even with installation (if you have good electrical knowledge, you can probably do this yourself. I am hiring an electrician though)
• All of the parts can be purchased from Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, etc.
• Nothing electronic in the system to fail. The Generlink does have built in electronics that can fail (and some have according to reviews that I've found)
• Just takes a minute or two to switch from the "grid" to your generator

I have a quote from a local electrician for $640 for parts, labor, etc. to install an interlock system in my panel. I'm NOT saying that the Generlink isn't a good solution. I am just from the camp of "simpler is better" and I like the idea that there's nothing electronic to fail. And I don't mind walking down to the panel to switch from the grid to the generator.

When it gets right down to it, ANY solution is better than no solution if the power goes out for very long!! Hopefully I don't need my generator tonight. We're forecasted for some nasty winter accumulation tonight. Fortunately, most of the ice is forecast for south of us, but it's gonna be close.

 

[ishiboo]

Most generators use a capacity rating at 240 volts - I would guess that a 7800 surge generator would supply only 3900 watts at 120V. Even if you don't use a generator, you're do well to convert to 240V - especially if your pump will go either way. I'm looking for a 10K PTO generator, simply to avoid virtually the same issue. Mike

240 volts is two 120v hot leads, phase shifted 180 degrees apart.

A 7800 watt generator @ 240v and will put out 7800 watts @ 120v. However it will do so on the two circuits that made up the 240v, so 3900 watts PER CIRCUIT.

As most large loads are 240v, and your houses 120v circuits are also split, this usually works out.