Loader Cannot articulate bucket while in Float Mode

[Shift4200]

Title says it.... here's the story.

When cleaning up the remnants from dragging the road, i typically use float mode quite often. Drop the bucket to the ground in float, angle the bucket down slightly (i know owners manual says to never do this... but it works so dam well!) then push the snow right into the bank. When i get to the bank, i angle the bucket up... this causes the loader arms to climb the bank. I then dump the bucket and lift the arms. Easy peesy.

So, last storm, as i was cleaning up... i found that i could no longer angle my bucket UP while in float. I would do like described above, but when i got to the bank, I'd have to take it out of float, scoop the bucket and then raise and dump over the bank. Seems like a simple process, but adds time to the clearing process.

Everyone I've talked to asks if it's just how the fel hydros are designed. I tell them no, as it was something i could do before but now cant. I pulled the boot off of the joystick to see if the linkage was the prob, but with -10deg winds it didnt get the look it needed.... having no garage is such a PIA.

The machine is under warranty, but I'd hate to be the guy that calls the dealer for every loose bolt i encounter. So, first stop is here... see what you guys have to say. If i come up dry, off to Dubay it goes.

Thanks in advance.

-J

 

[Tkblacktail]

I'd say give the dealer a call; there could be an over-the-phone quick-fix. Also, some dealers might be appreciative of the warranty business (semi-guaranteed payments) this time of year.

 

[jimpen]

I've found that if I have the MMM arms (even with it not mounted) raised all the way to the top the FEL hydraulics don't work correctly. I think there is some sort of valve that reverses when it's all the way up.

One of these days I have to take a ratchet down to the shed and and adjust the top stop so I don't forget. :grumpy: But for now -- try putting the MMM arms about halfway down.

 

[Shift4200]

I've found that if I have the MMM arms (even with it not mounted) raised all the way to the top the FEL hydraulics don't work correctly. I think there is some sort of valve that reverses when it's all the way up.

One of these days I have to take a ratchet down to the shed and and adjust the top stop so I don't forget. :grumpy: But for now -- try putting the MMM arms about halfway down.

It's worth a shot, but by doing this I'll also be lowering my 3pt hitch which has a blade attached. If this work, it will act as a good work around. I have a call into the dealer about this. I'll be sure to let you all know what comes of it.

-J

 

[Shift4200]

Round one of communication from the dealer.

I was told that articulating the bucket with float mode engaged is not possible. The valve is not capable of doing it. It was recommended that i get the bucket level before engaging float. I was then reminded that the bucket does not float, just the arms.

This exchange was via email, so I'm hoping there is a small amount of miscommunication going on. I've since emailed a more detailed explanation of whats going on. I reinforced the fact that I was able to do this a week ago... but cant now.

More to come...

-J

 

[J_J]

Title says it.... here's the story.

When cleaning up the remnants from dragging the road, i typically use float mode quite often. Drop the bucket to the ground in float, angle the bucket down slightly (i know owners manual says to never do this... but it works so dam well!) then push the snow right into the bank. When i get to the bank, i angle the bucket up... this causes the loader arms to climb the bank. I then dump the bucket and lift the arms. Easy peesy.

So, last storm, as i was cleaning up... i found that i could no longer angle my bucket UP while in float. I would do like described above, but when i got to the bank, I'd have to take it out of float, scoop the bucket and then raise and dump over the bank. Seems like a simple process, but adds time to the clearing process.

Everyone I've talked to asks if it's just how the fel hydros are designed. I tell them no, as it was something i could do before but now cant. I pulled the boot off of the joystick to see if the linkage was the prob, but with -10deg winds it didnt get the look it needed.... having no garage is such a PIA.

The machine is under warranty, but I'd hate to be the guy that calls the dealer for every loose bolt i encounter. So, first stop is here... see what you guys have to say. If i come up dry, off to Dubay it goes.

Thanks in advance.

-J

Read this and decide if this is true.

Definition of float spool:

FLOAT SPOOL (POSIT10N): A spool valve design which connects all ports to the tank (return) port, usually in a detented fourth position, allowing a cylinder or motor to "float".

You appear to be setting the curl angle before you go into float, and that will set the bucket cyl and lock it .

You then go into float and all the fluids from all ports go to tank.

Now you want to use the curl, but is there fluid available.

Check and see if the 3pt works while you are in float. I am curious.

 

[J_J]

It seems like you have got your answer.

 

[Shift4200]

It seems like you have got your answer.

3PT works with loader in float... No problem.

Bucket curl up does NOT work in Float... but did.

Bucket curl down DOES work in float... as it always has.

-J

 

[George2615]

It may be a problem with your valve. I just got done plowing and use the curl up/down all the time when in float mode. I know it's a pain but I'd take it back to the dealer for under warranty.

I had my loader valve replaced under warranty but that was for a different problem. There was an internal leak so the bucket wouldn't stay up. The bucket would drop 1-2 inches in less than a minute. I was told that all buckets have an acceptable rate of drop when not running but mine was dropping with it running.

I don't remember if my original valve would curl in float mode but the one they replaced it with does.

 

[Shift4200]

It may be a problem with your valve. I just got done plowing and use the curl up/down all the time when in float mode. I know it's a pain but I'd take it back to the dealer for under warranty.

I had my loader valve replaced under warranty but that was for a different problem. There was an internal leak so the bucket wouldn't stay up. The bucket would drop 1-2 inches in less than a minute. I was told that all buckets have an acceptable rate of drop when not running but mine was dropping with it running.

I don't remember if my original valve would curl in float mode but the one they replaced it with does.

I'm in the process of getting the dealers take on whats going on. I do hope to get it up there in the next week or so to have it looked at.

Thankful for this post as I was starting to think I was going crazy. I'll be sure to mention this to the dealer when i talk with him next.

-J

 

[J_J]

Circuit Considerations for Control Valves with more then One Spool

A) Open Center System with a Series Connection: Oil from the pump is directed to the multiple spools connected in Series. In the Neutral Position the oil passes through the valve in series and returns to the reservoir. When the control is operated, the oil is directed to the device that the valve serves. Return oil from the device is directed through the return line of the next valve.

NOTE: This circuit is satisfactory as long as only one valve needs to function at a time.

B) OpenCenter Systems with a Series/Parallel Connection: Oil from the pump is directed through the control valves in series, as well as in parallel. In Neutral, the oil passes through the valves in series. However when any valve is operating, the return is closed and the oil is available to all the valves through the parallel connection.

NOTE: When (2) or more valves are operated at once, the device that requires the least pressure will operate first, then the next device and so on.

NOTE: The advantage of this circuit is the ability to operate (2) or more valves simultaneously over the series connection.

 

[Shift4200]

Circuit Considerations for Control Valves with more then One Spool

A) Open Center System with a Series Connection: Oil from the pump is directed to the multiple spools connected in Series. In the Neutral Position the oil passes through the valve in series and returns to the reservoir. When the control is operated, the oil is directed to the device that the valve serves. Return oil from the device is directed through the return line of the next valve.

NOTE: This circuit is satisfactory as long as only one valve needs to function at a time.

B) OpenCenter Systems with a Series/Parallel Connection: Oil from the pump is directed through the control valves in series, as well as in parallel. In Neutral, the oil passes through the valves in series. However when any valve is operating, the return is closed and the oil is available to all the valves through the parallel connection.

NOTE: When (2) or more valves are operated at once, the device that requires the least pressure will operate first, then the next device and so on.

NOTE: The advantage of this circuit is the ability to operate (2) or more valves simultaneously over the series connection.

Interesting, wonder which setup the Max25 uses.

I spoke with the dealer again about this, he's going to pow wow with the service manager and see what they can work up. Knowing that i was once able to do this, and now that another user on here confirmed they can as well.... I'm confident that this will require some kind of warranty repair.

I'll update again when i have more to tell.

-J

 

[oldnslo]

If the 3 point works it would lead me to suspect that in float oil is being sent to the power beyond port and not tank.

Out of curiosity what happens if you try and lift a load on the 3PH with the FEL valve in float? Does the FEL start to lift or stay in float?

 

[Shift4200]

If the 3 point works it would lead me to suspect that in float oil is being sent to the power beyond port and not tank.

Out of curiosity what happens if you try and lift a load on the 3PH with the FEL valve in float? Does the FEL start to lift or stay in float?

The loader will lift about 6-8 inches when the 3pt hits the max raise position. Then immediately drops back down.

Is this normal?

-J

 

[jimpen]

The loader will lift about 6-8 inches when the 3pt hits the max raise position. Then immediately drops back down.

Is this normal?

That's how mine works. Normal is a different question. I just look at it as a limitation that the Max 25 has.

 

[Shift4200]

That's how mine works. Normal is a different question. I just look at it as a limitation that the Max 25 has.

Ha... what is normal? Am I right?

I'm not sure I'd call it a limitation, but i see where you're going with that. I've personally never found it to be a hindrance in any way. Just thought it was interesting when i first saw it happen.

-J

 

[J_J]

When you try and use the 3pt, and the loader valve in float, you cause back pressure to affect the valves up stream, and you may be feeding fluid into the lift cyl until they equalize.

Just an educated guess.

 

[oldnslo]

When you try and use the 3pt, and the loader valve in float, you cause back pressure to affect the valves up stream, and you may be feeding fluid into the lift cyl until they equalize.

Just an educated guess.

I suspect the same thing is happening but now the question becomes why won't the curl function work if the 3PH works? Sure be interesting to see a detailed schematic of the valve used on the max tractors. So darn many options these days we can guess forever.

 

[arrow]

Shift, my 3016 also actuates the bucket while in float. I wonder if you have a compromised o
ring in your scv or something to the effect and thus unable to pressurize your curl function while in float? Yet another uneducated guess.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I was told that articulating the bucket with float mode engaged is not possible. The valve is not capable of doing it. It was recommended that i get the bucket level before engaging float. I was then reminded that the bucket does not float, just the arms.

Is this typical? I am pretty sure I can both curl and dump my bucket when the arms are floating.