The most counterintuitive result ever!!!!

   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #51  
Multiplication, division, adding and subtracting. In order to end up with a negative result a negative number has to be introduced into the computation somewhere. And that would never happen if all you are doing is adding positive integers.
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #52  
Don't anyone take this personally, but when I was in college in a previous century, my calculus professor told me that "Figures never lie, but liars figure!".
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #53  
I'll risk my meager reputation to say that I watched all of the related videos and was able to follow. It's an interesting thought experiment using high level mathematics that I'm sure I wouldn't understand, but the video demonstrated the theories correctly.

Thanks for posting
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #54  
Yes, except for the assumption that 1-1+1-1+1-1+1-... = 0.5 or 1/2. "Because we don't know whether to stop after a +1 or after a -1, we just average the two possible answers," is just a completely arbitrary solution. The little three dots, indicating that the equation goes on forever, mean that the equation must be conceptual only, because one must NEVER STOP calculating it. The idea that we must pick either a +1 or a -1 to stop at ruins the whole thing. Then arbitrarily deciding just to average the two possible answers ruins it again. It's ruined squared.

And 1+2+3+4+5+6+... is also conceptual only for the same reason. It cannot actually have any concrete answer, much less -1/12. So they can write proofs until the cows come home, but it's all meaningless. In fact they hint at this themselves without ever realizing it. They point out that in physics, we can not actually deal with infinite measurements. Well no duh. The same applies to these conceptual equations. We cannot actually answer them. The whole premise that we can assign a finite answer to a never-ending calculation is flawed right out of the gate.

The only examples of never-ending equations that can be answered are ones that could be restated as equations that end. Such as 1*1*1*1*1*... because obviously its value is the same as 1*1. Continuing to carry out additional operators never changes the value. Or 0+0+0+0+0+... has the same property.
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #55  
Yes, except for the assumption that 1-1+1-1+1-1+1-... = 0.5 or 1/2. "Because we don't know whether to stop after a +1 or after a -1, we just average the two possible answers," is just a completely arbitrary solution. The little three dots, indicating that the equation goes on forever, mean that the equation must be conceptual only, because one must NEVER STOP calculating it. The idea that we must pick either a +1 or a -1 to stop at ruins the whole thing. Then arbitrarily deciding just to average the two possible answers ruins it again. It's ruined squared.

And 1+2+3+4+5+6+... is also conceptual only for the same reason. It cannot actually have any concrete answer, much less -1/12. So they can write proofs until the cows come home, but it's all meaningless. In fact they hint at this themselves without ever realizing it. They point out that in physics, we can not actually deal with infinite measurements. Well no duh. The same applies to these conceptual equations. We cannot actually answer them. The whole premise that we can assign a finite answer to a never-ending calculation is flawed right out of the gate.

The only examples of never-ending equations that can be answered are ones that could be restated as equations that end. Such as 1*1*1*1*1*... because obviously its value is the same as 1*1. Continuing to carry out additional operators never changes the value. Or 0+0+0+0+0+... has the same property.

I don't even understand advanced maths, and really only have a very tenuous grasp on the most basic arithmetic, but even I can understand that adding infinite pluses can't equal a negative. It seems some mathematicians get so full of themselves and their higher knowledge of conceptual theories and formulas that they tend to lose all sense of reality.

Reminds me of a limerick. It's about vocabulary, but the same idea seems to apply:

A man of utter verbosity
Loved words with such ferocity,
Waxing profound,
He fell to the ground,
Knocked down by hes own pomposity.

Joe
 
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   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #56  
Actually math is no different than a fiction novel . Who says 2+2 = 4 .That is just an opinion .What happens when those aliens come to pick up those pallets and tell you that 2x2 =0 . Are you going to file a grievance ?
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #57  
Actually math is no different than a fiction novel . Who says 2+2 = 4 .That is just an opinion .What happens when those aliens come to pick up those pallets and tell you that 2x2 =0 . Are you going to file a grievance ?

No... If I file a grievance, the lawyers will show up, then things get really messy! ;)

Joe
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #58  
...
If you wake up and the instructor is saying, "If this had worked the way it was supposed to, .......," you're in physics lab.;)

Nah. You're in a Politics 354 class.
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!! #59  
Steve, a lot of physics solutions involve infinity, usually as a limit in a calculus equation. For instance, the energy needed to accelerate a mass increases geometrically as the velocity increases. The energy requirement approaches infinity as the velocity approaches the speed of light in a vacuum. Which is why they say you can never reach light speed, as the energy required would be infinite, but infinity is never actually reachable.
 
   / The most counterintuitive result ever!!!!
  • Thread Starter
#60  
Steve, a lot of physics solutions involve infinity, usually as a limit in a calculus equation. For instance, the energy needed to accelerate a mass increases geometrically as the velocity increases. The energy requirement approaches infinity as the velocity approaches the speed of light in a vacuum. Which is why they say you can never reach light speed, as the energy required would be infinite, but infinity is never actually reachable.

I don't think we are in disagreement, it's just a matter of semantics. I know more about statistics than physics, and statistics often require using +/- infinity as limits of integration. What I understood the physicist was saying is that we don't "observe" infinity in the physical world.

Steve

Edit: Here's another physicist's take on infinity: http://www.edge.org/response-detail/25344.
 
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